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Konica C2060(C3070) vs Canon C750

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  • Konica C2060(C3070) vs Canon C750

    Hi

    We've been looking at getting our first digital press and we've narrowed it down to the Konica C3070(new version of the C2070) or a Canon C750.

    I've been reading good things about the Konica's(1060/2060) but can find hardly any mention about the Canon, we are due to see both in action next week but i'd like to know if anymore has experience with both presses or at least the Canon C750/C850

    Both are around the same price so it will come down to quality of print, substrates, reliability and what 'extras' we get with the press. Canon for example are offering marketing training for our sales staff, has anyone gone on one of these and are they worth while?

    Cheers
    Last edited by Sjf; 03-08-2018, 05:31 AM.

  • #2
    Hey,
    We have the Canon C800. It is almost the same printer.
    The C65/750/850 have minor improvements over the previous generation. It is a good printer.
    If you do 20-80k A4 clicks it's the right printer for you.

    I once tested the Konica and Xerox offerings at this price-point. In side-by-side comparison they are equals when printing on offset uncoated and coated media up to 300gsm.
    The only place Canon outdid the other two is on printing textured stock. We use Rives Tradition, Linear, Design and other textured papers. Canon lays the toner perfectly.
    In this iteration Canon has the "scan-and-align the print on the page" function (sadly, lacking on my C800).

    Colors seemed more saturated on the Xerox, and less on the Konica. This is easily solved with good color profiling (and management).

    Silviu

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    • #3
      Originally posted by silviuv View Post
      The only place Canon outdid the other two is on printing textured stock. We use Rives Tradition, Linear, Design and other textured papers. Canon lays the toner perfectly.


      Silviu
      The C1070 series did struggle a bit with certain textured stocks, but this was resolved on the next series, the C2070, when Konica Minolta introduced a new transfer belt and springs specifically to address textured stocks. You can turn this function on and off right on the user panel without any tech involvement.
      A Konica Minolta production print specialist and former pre-press specialist.

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      • #4
        Please take also DFE into account, because the PRISMAsync controller provides easy production.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Yes U Can View Post
          Please take also DFE into account, because the PRISMAsync controller provides easy production.
          Do you recommend the PRISMAsync over the Fiery ?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Sjf View Post

            Do you recommend the PRISMAsync over the Fiery ?
            I do. I think it's considerably easier to use, and it works much better with media driven printers. We have it on every printer in the shop (10,000, 6010, 750, Varioprint 6320).

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            • #7
              Originally posted by silviuv View Post
              Hey,
              We have the Canon C800. It is almost the same printer.
              The C65/750/850 have minor improvements over the previous generation. It is a good printer.
              If you do 20-80k A4 clicks it's the right printer for you.

              I once tested the Konica and Xerox offerings at this price-point. In side-by-side comparison they are equals when printing on offset uncoated and coated media up to 300gsm.
              The only place Canon outdid the other two is on printing textured stock. We use Rives Tradition, Linear, Design and other textured papers. Canon lays the toner perfectly.
              In this iteration Canon has the "scan-and-align the print on the page" function (sadly, lacking on my C800).

              Colors seemed more saturated on the Xerox, and less on the Konica. This is easily solved with good color profiling (and management).

              Silviu
              What options did you have with yours? we are thinking about going offline with for a booklet makers as we do a lot of A5 and A6 booklets

              Comment


              • #8
                So just an update we've seen both machines now, well we only saw an older C1060 our local KM dealer had at their showroom but got the full tour from Cannon at there main Cannon production print office, maybe we should have gone direct to KM?

                Anyway both seem to perform pretty well and are pretty much the same price for almost the same finishing options, heres where each stand

                Canon:

                Pros:
                We get a external fiery rip with a spectrometer
                Single extended paper draw that can dupex 6pp A4 which is great but no option on the machine to crease/fold which means we will need to buy more equipment to make full use of this, I'd rather have the 3 deck paper draw but my boss liked the 6pp option
                They are offering us a free marketing course for our sales staff and 2 days with a external EBBP consultant
                We can get a Morgana book finisher with a square back unit for a good monthly price that can do down to A6 size books

                Cons:
                The machine is only rated at 300gsm which is a big worry to us
                They don't have techs in our general area but claim they can get one out within 2-4 hours
                They said they average A4 click shouldn't be pushed over 40-50k a month for a 5 year lease machine

                Konica

                Pros:
                The dealers office is only 25-30mins away from us so getting a tech out shouldn't be too much hassle
                The printer will be monitored from there office and they will send us toner when needed without having to call them
                The machine is rated out the box for 350gsm and claim some people out 400gsm through it
                Average click is 60-75k
                The 3 draw paper deck but can have they long media draw added without removing it

                Cons:
                We only get an embedded rip with no spectrometer at the same price of the Canon with an external rip + spectro
                Long media can't be duplexed
                Being a dealer their tech knowledge was no where near as good as Canon
                No offer for offline finishing

                As you can see Canon on paper are offering way more but we print a lot of heavy stock on our litho and would like to move all the low run stuff to, we have customers that use 400gsm textured stock, The Konica c1060 ran it but didn't come out great, as mentioned above the C2070/C3070 do better on textured stock? Canon didn't even bother to try it and said flat out no we can't do it.

                If anyone has anything that can sway us either way please feel free to add
                Last edited by Sjf; 03-16-2018, 05:46 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I C750 is now rated at 350gsm. They recently up'd it from 300. I don't believe there was a firmware update or anything though. So you essentially set the device to 300gsm, but run 350. I believe 350 is officially "supported" now. This is info I have from a few months ago though, so things may have changed.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NathanD View Post
                    I C750 is now rated at 350gsm. They recently up'd it from 300. I don't believe there was a firmware update or anything though. So you essentially set the device to 300gsm, but run 350. I believe 350 is officially "supported" now. This is info I have from a few months ago though, so things may have changed.
                    We just had the same told to us by our fiery tech, run 350 using the 300 gsm settings. We run a lot of 300 gsm cover and have no problems with the C750 since last May.

                    FYI- We had some fiery to copier communication issues but it seems to have turned out that the paper catalog in the copier was set up incorrectly for the fiery to read. Our fiery tech was used to setting up for the Prisma server but discovered the fiery needed each paper we used set up by each size. Before we would have issues selecting a paper drawer from the fiery and would lose the job settings between runs. The copier now runs more efficiently and doesn't stop as often or as long to make adjustments.

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                    • #11
                      Good to hear, we decided to go with the Canon because they just offered so much value to us, we'll be getting it on the 19th so not long now!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sjf View Post

                        Konica

                        Pros:
                        The dealers office is only 25-30mins away from us so getting a tech out shouldn't be too much hassle
                        The printer will be monitored from there office and they will send us toner when needed without having to call them
                        The machine is rated out the box for 350gsm and claim some people out 400gsm through it
                        Average click is 60-75k
                        The 3 draw paper deck but can have they long media draw added without removing it

                        Cons:
                        We only get an embedded rip with no spectrometer at the same price of the Canon with an external rip + spectro
                        Long media can't be duplexed
                        Being a dealer their tech knowledge was no where near as good as Canon
                        SJF, that's dissapointing to hear the dealer only has an older C1060. That unit is so old that we have already upgraded several that are end-of-lease. Alot changed on the C2060/70 series, and once again with the new C3070/80 series. I would definitely check out a Konica Corporate office if they are close enough.

                        One of your cons...about long media duplexing is incorrect...we can duplex up to 30 inches long. That means you can do a tri-panel 8.5x11 brochure in-line. We can also simplex up to 51 inches long.

                        I'm also amazed to hear they are not including a spectro. We consider that a requirement whenever we sell a color unit so you can calibrate...unless they are offering you the inline IQ-501. This in-line unit will automatically calibrate the sheets, and automate front to back registration in only 1 sheet. It also verifies color throughout the run on every sheet. With this option, you don't need the spectro.

                        As for the embedded Fiery, I always ask the customer some qualifying questions before pushing the external. At their core, they both offer the same essential features....job management, queuing, impose/compose, etc. Only if you do large variable data mailings or massive book/magazine projects that require lots of processing power do you really need the processing power of the external. If you use a hot-folder workflow, the external Fiery already includes this while the embedded can add this as an upgrade. There are some other considerations, but the internal will most likely suffice...just make sure you get impose/compose not matter which way you go! Or even Impose/Job Master if you do alot of tab jobs and numbering.

                        A Konica Minolta production print specialist and former pre-press specialist.

                        Comment

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