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  • Need Advice & Reviews - Leasing a new light Production Press

    We're looking to lease a new light production press. We currently have a Xerox C75 and our dealer has been a mess and the machine is obsolete.

    Currently have quotes from Ricoh for a Pro5200 although they are suggest the new IM C6000 (I don't think they realize the extent of our heavy stock usage)...Any reason to downgrade to a MFP? Also any experiences with the Pro5200 positive or negative?

    Then we have a quote for a Canon ImagePress C650. Again, any experiences positive or negative?

    How do you find the service with Ricoh vs Canon. I imagine it will have to be better than my experience with Xerox (my dealer...more than Corporate).

    I'm looking to do test runs for both of them, but I really value actual life experiences and reviews over a short test run.

    Any companies other than these you feel strongly about me reaching out to? We've already decided against Xerox again.

    Thank you so much, in advance, for any help you offer!
    Last edited by PrintIsMyJam; 03-26-2019, 11:06 AM.

  • #2
    What kind of volume and stock do you run? I have J75s but when I think C75 I think those specific Ricoh machines sound like a step down, or at best a lateral move?

    I have recently seen a few demos on a Ricoh 7210sx, which it did great on registration and heavy stock, things that the J75s really struggle with...not sure if that is more machine than you are thinking but I came away more impressed than I expected.

    Also done a lot of demos on KM C6100...no complaints here either, again may be more machine than you are thinking, but they have smaller models that basically trickle down the best of that probably to a machine closer to what you need. If you are out shopping, IMHO you may as well see what KM has to offer for comparison's sake.

    No experience with service as we have not made a change yet, but we have gotten very attractive pricing from both Ricoh and KM. Canon has been pretty slow to the table, I don't really like how the prints look off of the C650...one of our Canon vendors sends us postcards in the mail every month and they boast "printed on a C650" and they consistently don't impress...but I have not sat there and taken a full demo on the machine either so take that FWIW.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ksherrod View Post
      What kind of volume and stock do you run? I have J75s but when I think C75 I think those specific Ricoh machines sound like a step down, or at best a lateral move?

      I have recently seen a few demos on a Ricoh 7210sx, which it did great on registration and heavy stock, things that the J75s really struggle with...not sure if that is more machine than you are thinking but I came away more impressed than I expected.

      Also done a lot of demos on KM C6100...no complaints here either, again may be more machine than you are thinking, but they have smaller models that basically trickle down the best of that probably to a machine closer to what you need. If you are out shopping, IMHO you may as well see what KM has to offer for comparison's sake.

      No experience with service as we have not made a change yet, but we have gotten very attractive pricing from both Ricoh and KM. Canon has been pretty slow to the table, I don't really like how the prints look off of the C650...one of our Canon vendors sends us postcards in the mail every month and they boast "printed on a C650" and they consistently don't impress...but I have not sat there and taken a full demo on the machine either so take that FWIW.
      Thanks for the input.

      We're around 20-25k clicks a month. Not huge volume... We mainly do too much to afford sending out, but too little to need a really powerful machine. Want to do everything in house. We want the quality to still be the best we can afford. A lot of of our volume is 13x19 or 12x18 duplexing of 100#-110# stock...coated and uncoated....also, quite a bit of 11x17 booklets/calendars...Brochures and the like.

      According to our Ricoh salesman he thinks the Pro5200 is overkill. So i'm glad I'm asking here. I will take a look at the KM and give a dealer a call too.

      Thanks again for responding!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by PrintIsMyJam View Post

        Thanks for the input.

        We're around 20-25k clicks a month. Not huge volume... We mainly do too much to afford sending out, but too little to need a really powerful machine. Want to do everything in house. We want the quality to still be the best we can afford. A lot of of our volume is 13x19 or 12x18 duplexing of 100#-110# stock...coated and uncoated....also, quite a bit of 11x17 booklets/calendars...Brochures and the like.

        According to our Ricoh salesman he thinks the Pro5200 is overkill. So i'm glad I'm asking here. I will take a look at the KM and give a dealer a call too.

        Thanks again for responding!
        Are you finishing inline or do you do all of your finishing off line?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by AP90 View Post

          Are you finishing inline or do you do all of your finishing off line?
          in line - we have all the finishing options except the binding & trimming.

          Comment


          • #6
            I know you’ve said you are ruling out Xerox but the V180 and 3100 cam do inline fill bleed booklets at rated speed, or 2 sheets less per minute. Quality is outstanding, and being able to box the booklets as they come off the finisher is a huge advantage. And they’re square folded so they lay perfect. Adding these finishing options has made it so much easier for us.

            Comment


            • #7
              We're an all-Xerox shop, but, then, we ONLY deal with corporate (never dealers). I boot them (dealers) out as quickly as they come in the front door.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by PrintIsMyJam View Post

                Thanks for the input.

                We're around 20-25k clicks a month. Not huge volume... We mainly do too much to afford sending out, but too little to need a really powerful machine. Want to do everything in house. We want the quality to still be the best we can afford. A lot of of our volume is 13x19 or 12x18 duplexing of 100#-110# stock...coated and uncoated....also, quite a bit of 11x17 booklets/calendars...Brochures and the like.

                According to our Ricoh salesman he thinks the Pro5200 is overkill. So i'm glad I'm asking here. I will take a look at the KM and give a dealer a call too.

                Thanks again for responding!
                I am skeptical of your Ricoh salesman just for recommending the IM C6000? That doesn't look like a great fit, though admittedly I don't know much about it.

                On paper, the 5200 may be adequate, but I don't know enough about that machine. 25k 12x18 though, basically means 50-60k impressions in how these machines are rated. If you go through the specs of the 5200...the max monthly volume is 150k. The C6000 is 50k. Now I would generally take that number and divide that by 4, and that's how many 12x18 impressions you probably will be able to get through in a month without wearing the machine out and or seeing service every day. If most of your work is heavy coverage and thick paper, you might cut that number in half again, and expect to see service more frequently. Ask your dealer for the customer expectation document. That will say something regarding monthly volume, to where if you consistently run above a certain volume per month, the life expectancy of the machine would be affected. My take from that though, is that your sales person sounds very silly for recommending a C6000.

                A lot of people here will (rightly) tell you that the "light production" machines will struggle duplexing 12x18 or 13x19 on 100# or 110# accurately. I agree with that statement...and I would stress that you'll need to demo the hell out of any machine to make sure it meets your requirements.

                Last edited by ksherrod; 03-26-2019, 01:53 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I would see if Ricoh can give you numbers on a slightly used 7100.
                  (2) Ricoh Pro 7110SX digital printers
                  OKI C931e with Straight Shooter Envelope feeder

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AP90 View Post
                    I know you’ve said you are ruling out Xerox but the V180 and 3100 cam do inline fill bleed booklets at rated speed, or 2 sheets less per minute. Quality is outstanding, and being able to box the booklets as they come off the finisher is a huge advantage. And they’re square folded so they lay perfect. Adding these finishing options has made it so much easier for us.
                    +1

                    We deal directly with Xerox. We have had some troubles in the past but with some fighting it has always been resolved. The Versant series is a solid digital press and you get some added benefits like being able to run envelopes. The only time my 2100 jams doing #10 plain or window envelopes is if I did not load them correctly.

                    Been extremely happy with our Versant, consistent colours and registration, it is the best digital press we have ever had.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Can I ask max resolution - 2400x2400 dpi vs 1200x4800. I'm not really familiar with 1200x4800....

                      Sorry I'm new this world and want to make sure I'm making the best choice for my company.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wonderings View Post

                        +1

                        We deal directly with Xerox. We have had some troubles in the past but with some fighting it has always been resolved. The Versant series is a solid digital press and you get some added benefits like being able to run envelopes. The only time my 2100 jams doing #10 plain or window envelopes is if I did not load them correctly.

                        Been extremely happy with our Versant, consistent colours and registration, it is the best digital press we have ever had.
                        Our Xerox Versant 180P is incredibly solid compared to the J75 we used to have. We went for all the bells and whistles for finishing and are certainly not disappointed. Highly recommend you take a look at Xerox again - no one else is offering as much in-line finishing as them. It's nice to be able to put in three quarters of a pallet of paper into a machine and have fully-finished booklets come out, that you simply put in the box. No extra fiddling required.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PricelineNegotiator View Post

                          Our Xerox Versant 180P is incredibly solid compared to the J75 we used to have. We went for all the bells and whistles for finishing and are certainly not disappointed. Highly recommend you take a look at Xerox again - no one else is offering as much in-line finishing as them. It's nice to be able to put in three quarters of a pallet of paper into a machine and have fully-finished booklets come out, that you simply put in the box. No extra fiddling required.
                          our J75 was a nightmare. A year of fighting with Xerox had them take it back at full price and put that towards a heavy reduced price Versant 2100 which is a dream to run.

                          We do all our finishing offline, other then fold and staple. Those types of jobs are generally too large to run digitally.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ksherrod View Post

                            I am skeptical of your Ricoh salesman just for recommending the IM C6000? That doesn't look like a great fit, though admittedly I don't know much about it.

                            On paper, the 5200 may be adequate, but I don't know enough about that machine. 25k 12x18 though, basically means 50-60k impressions in how these machines are rated. If you go through the specs of the 5200...the max monthly volume is 150k. The C6000 is 50k. Now I would generally take that number and divide that by 4, and that's how many 12x18 impressions you probably will be able to get through in a month without wearing the machine out and or seeing service every day. If most of your work is heavy coverage and thick paper, you might cut that number in half again, and expect to see service more frequently. Ask your dealer for the customer expectation document. That will say something regarding monthly volume, to where if you consistently run above a certain volume per month, the life expectancy of the machine would be affected. My take from that though, is that your sales person sounds very silly for recommending a C6000.

                            A lot of people here will (rightly) tell you that the "light production" machines will struggle duplexing 12x18 or 13x19 on 100# or 110# accurately. I agree with that statement...and I would stress that you'll need to demo the hell out of any machine to make sure it meets your requirements.
                            After messaging with you and a conference call with them yesterday, I was skeptical too. Was seriously questioning if I even wanted to test their machines.... Then called back today and after finally hearing me and researching what we have and what we need. They agreed with us that the 5200 would be a better fit and removed the C6000 as an option altogether. So that makes me happier.

                            Getting ready to test them next week. Any advice on testing... how many copies is an adequate test...I don't want to be excessive and wasteful, but I want to make sure the machine will do what we need it to. I'm bring various types of jobs...a brochure, a booklet, a postcard, one of our weekly programs.

                            Also may I ask:
                            max resolution - 2400x2400 dpi vs 1200x4800. I'm not really familiar with 1200x4800.... what's the difference? Is one better than the other?

                            Sorry I'm new this world and want to make sure I'm making the best choice for my company. So appreciate any and all of your help.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You'll want to see actual print samples. Each of those resolutions also has a bit depth that would be "@ 1" "@ 8" or "@ 10". The higher the bit depth, the better the gradients and sweeps look. Our J75 was 600 x 600 @ 8, but when compared again our V180P with 1200 x 1200 @ 10, it's a totally different game (even if it was running 600 x 600 @ 8).

                              Oh also make sure you give them your own files for testing.

                              Comment

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