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Hardware suggestions - 350gsm full bleed duplex

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  • chrisbyrd
    started a topic Hardware suggestions - 350gsm full bleed duplex

    Hardware suggestions - 350gsm full bleed duplex

    Hello

    New here, so be gentle...

    I’m looking for a suitable entry-level machine that supports full-bleed duplex printing on 350g A4 stock - mainly to be used for customised greeting-card production. Not really photos - solid/vector images often with full colour backgrounds

    Probably ~10,000 per month

    Very happy to use a refurbished/used device

    Any suggestions of models that might be worth checking out?

    Thanks

    Chris

  • SoManyPixels
    replied
    I've just seen that the c911 is due to be discontinued soon (in the UK at least). According to the dealer I bought from the consumables should be available "for about 5 years". Given that it only launched here in November 2015 it's been abandoned by Oki pretty quickly. Not the best long term purchase I've ever made..

    Leave a comment:


  • Shawnd
    replied
    https://www.oki.com/us/printing/prod...931/index.html

    Doesn't say that on oki's site. Still the 931 will not handle heavy media that well either. For heavy media like 350gsm+ you need either memjet or production class equipment or you will be hating your decision while trying to fill a bigger order.

    Leave a comment:


  • SoManyPixels
    replied
    At the time I bought my c911 the dealer told me the only difference to the pro series models was the CPU speed. Having just checked the Oki website though I can see the pro series models use different imaging drums, so it's only the transfer belt and fused that are common to all the models.

    The model numbers differ globally, I was told the 931 was the 9431 in the UK, so it all depends where you are based.

    Interestingly, the dealer I bought from has the 9431 listed on their website, but has a note recommending the c911 over it as it has a longer warranty and is "the same specification"... very confusing! Maybe Shawnd can shed more light on the difference between the internals of the models?

    Leave a comment:


  • chrisbyrd
    replied
    Originally posted by Shawnd View Post
    911 is worse than the 931 on thicker media, why would you go that direction? Price?

    I wouldn't touch a 911 with a ten foot pole if I was doing professional work.
    Ah, I thought they were similar

    931 looks discontinued - what’s the replacement?

    Leave a comment:


  • Shawnd
    replied
    911 is worse than the 931 on thicker media, why would you go that direction? Price?

    I wouldn't touch a 911 with a ten foot pole if I was doing professional work.

    Leave a comment:


  • SoManyPixels
    replied
    How did the test prints turn out? Was the demo unit using the revised transfer belt? I'd be very interested to hear, this colour registration has been annoying me but I'm loathe to fit a new belt as I've no idea if it would actually improve things.

    Leave a comment:


  • chrisbyrd
    replied
    So, I think I’m going to get an Oki c911 and a 450VS+ guillotine to get started with this - anybody see any major problems with using this Oki?

    Leave a comment:


  • msaeger
    replied
    Originally posted by wonderings View Post

    You can get refurbished machines with a service contract. That is how we got into digital printing (were offset only). Was much cheaper, did the job reasonably well and let us figure some things out with what we wanted to do and did not want to do. Much smaller investment on a previous gen machine and a service contract to keep us up and running.

    I would only agree with avoiding used machines if you do not have a service contract. So many things can go wonky the time of trying to fix it yourself would cost more then the service guys coming in and having parts and everything you need at their disposal.
    Yes I agree you can get a contact on a used machine. Just talk to the local service manager before you buy and see what they want done to it before they will cover it.

    Leave a comment:


  • chrisbyrd
    replied
    Thanks everyone - really appreciate the input.

    I’ve learnt *a lot* from this thread!

    Leave a comment:


  • wonderings
    replied
    Originally posted by studioindustria View Post
    I would advise against a refurbished machine. If you have work to do done' waste time on a so called bargain. An't worth it. A lease on a new machine isn't much and you'll need the support if you are new at digital printing. I'd consider a refurbished as a back up press only.
    You can get refurbished machines with a service contract. That is how we got into digital printing (were offset only). Was much cheaper, did the job reasonably well and let us figure some things out with what we wanted to do and did not want to do. Much smaller investment on a previous gen machine and a service contract to keep us up and running.

    I would only agree with avoiding used machines if you do not have a service contract. So many things can go wonky the time of trying to fix it yourself would cost more then the service guys coming in and having parts and everything you need at their disposal.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lorenzo, lab guy
    replied
    Chris,
    On a small to mid-size printer I don't think there is a machine that prints full-bleed directly. If you are doing folded cards, you are going to need a finisher anyway so look at a creaser/cutter. You may as well get something like a Duplo DC-646 to cut and crease your cards out of a larger sheet. Creasing digital output doesn't work with every creaser. The Duplo wil also solve your bleed needs. With our click-rate we can make 2-4 cards for less than 5 cents +paper.We use a Xerox Versant to make greeting cards with the duplo combination and produce 20K per month quite easliy with that combo, aside from a lot more "regular" printing. I think a used Versant could get you going fairly inexpensively. But really, your finishing equioment is a much bigger issue than what printer you choose. I have had this discussion mutliple times in our photo lab buying group. Some small printer's toner costs will not let you be competitive on materials cost.
    Last edited by Lorenzo, lab guy; 04-14-2019, 06:59 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • studioindustria
    replied
    do you have trimming capabilities? You will need that to print oversize and trim. If your service plan is charges by clicks it pays to print on A3 plus and trim to A4. We have similar requirements to your and we recently installed a new machine. I test drove all the major brands and print quantity is fantastic on all machines these days. We would up installing the Knoia Mnolta Accurio 3070. I like the KM because the entry level print engine can use all the front end and back end accessories that are used on the large machines. To duplex 350gsm wil you need a high quality paper feeding unit and the KM has a vacuums assist paper feed. I didn't see it on the entry models of the other brands and that was a major decision for the KM. With 350gsm duplex I still keep my eye on it inspecting every few sheets for front to back registration. KM does have expensive software that automatically does this but I decided nt to go that route to keep the monthly lease cost down. I would advise against a refurbished machine. If you have work to do done' waste time on a so called bargain. An't worth it. A lease on a new machine isn't much and you'll need the support if you are new at digital printing. I'd consider a refurbished as a back up press only.

    Leave a comment:


  • SoManyPixels
    replied
    Thought I'd share my experience with the suggested Oki (actually running a c911, which I believe is the same engine).

    While there are many good points to it, the print quality on heavy stock isn't perfect. It has a tendency for the colour registration to go off on the trail edge of the page. Sometimes it's barely noticeable, sometimes it's quite bad. Heavy mix of magenta and cyan seem to be the worst.

    I run Xerox color impressions 350gsm silk coated. Also had the issue with Mondi 300gsm uncoated. Mainly print short run business cards, so the issue isn't too bad as even when the colours go badly off I can usually save some of the cards from the sheet.

    If you are considering the Oki, make sure you demo it with your own paper and artwork. Run at least 10 pages in one hit - the first three always come out perfect, from 4 onwards take a close look at the colour registration.

    It is known to Oki as their manual makes reference to it with a setting intended to minimise the effect (heavy media adjust mode).

    The latest firmware has improved the quality, and I have seen there is a revised transfer belt so it may no longer be an issue.

    Leave a comment:


  • Shawnd
    replied
    I run the snot out of a 931e, for envelopes it does great, thicker stuff I have had issues with it jamming and wouldn't recommend running 350gsm through it.

    Leave a comment:

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