B/W Copier / Printer Suggestions?

[jdkmfish]

Hi All,
We have two very old B/W Konica Printers / Copiers,
which have over 3 million copies on them.
I am looking to replace them because of service issues,
anyone care to recommend a machine (s) to me?

we are low volume b/w, maybe 30K a month,
but are looking for at least 75+ cpm because everything is always a rush job.
Also, want a machine with good quality, can handle heavier stocks, index tabs . . .
it doesn't even have to be a new machine, maybe a refurb?

Any thoughts

 

[PineyBob]

Hi All,
We have two very old B/W Konica Printers / Copiers,
which have over 3 million copies on them.
I am looking to replace them because of service issues,
anyone care to recommend a machine (s) to me?

we are low volume b/w, maybe 30K a month,
but are looking for at least 75+ cpm because everything is always a rush job.
Also, want a machine with good quality, can handle heavier stocks, index tabs . . .
it doesn't even have to be a new machine, maybe a refurb?

Any thoughts

The Canon 7086 is a nice machine and I think they some outrageous promotion on it for year end. Might be pricey for the volume. Tabs are a breeze on these as you can draw from the drawer not a bypass.

Konica-Minolta makes a nice product in that performance range and you already have Konica Products. If you're happy with the dealer support on the K-M I think I'd stay put manufacturer wise.

I'm not a big fan of Ricoh, Sharp, Kyocera-Mita and I think in this case Xerox might be out of your price range although with their purchase of Global Imaging Systems (Chain of Indy Dealers) they might be willing to wheel and deal more, plus it might give you an entre into the digital world if you're not there already.

End of year is a great time to buy both from a cost & tax perspective. Check out the Section 179 of the IRS code for small business investment and the way you can treat it tax wise. No longer up on the fine points but check it out as I think it get even better.

 

[jdkmfish]

PineyBob
Thanks for the information.

I have not been happy at all with the service and support from Konica/Minolta,
so we are very open to switching.

Currently we have Xerox color printers, Docucolor and have been very happy with their service. We do a much higher volume in color then B/W.

And yes we are a digital shop, so we need connectivity to print from files.
Xerox was kind of pricey for our volume, maybe we'll check out the Canon

Thanks
jim

 

[random]

what is the model number of your current machines.

 

[ajr]

Lots of Heidelberg/Kodak Digimasters knocking about second hand. Great machines built like tanks. Start from 110 pages a minute.

AjR

 

[notech_commonsense]

jdkmfish: your local xerox rep could have some demo equipment for sale in the 75 ppm range. contact them or contact me. i'll set you up.

 

[Craig]

I'm not a big fan of Ricoh, Sharp, Kyocera-Mita and I think in this case Xerox might be out of your price range although with their purchase of Global Imaging Systems (Chain of Indy Dealers) they might be willing to wheel and deal more, plus it might give you an entre into the digital world if you're not there already.

I have a Ricoh MP9000 that is just turning 2 years old with 9,294,317 copies on it. The above statement may have been true with the older production models but the MP series works. The only thing they could improve is tighter front to back registration. I would recommend this machine to anyone with any volume, excellent price for an excellent product.

 

[GregNac19]

I think in this case Xerox might be out of your price range although with their purchase of Global Imaging Systems (Chain of Indy Dealers) they might be willing to wheel and deal more

You need to investigate more on the Global service. It will not be what you have today. You will probally get the machine cheaper upfront but, it will not be the same technicians you know today and the will not be a Replacement Guarantee backed by Xerox if Global service the models. I hope this helps.

 

[PineyBob]

I think in this case Xerox might be out of your price range although with their purchase of Global Imaging Systems (Chain of Indy Dealers) they might be willing to wheel and deal more

You need to investigate more on the Global service. It will not be what you have today. You will probally get the machine cheaper upfront but, it will not be the same technicians you know today and the will not be a Replacement Guarantee backed by Xerox if Global service the models. I hope this helps.

Would you be knd enough to elaborate on the Replacement Guarantee not being offered by Global?

As to the techs at Global, during my tenure with Canon I found the Global Dealers to be among the very best in the Independent Dealer Community especially in the Carolinas and AL. Can't speak beyond that. They wll NOT as you pointed out be the same people.

Craig,
You may well be rght regardng Ricoh. I don't have a ton of exposure to the new products. I stll remain unmpressed with the 60-75 CPM products. They are knd of "me too" in my mnd.

 

[GregNac19]

Would you be knd enough to elaborate on the Replacement Guarantee not being offered by Global?

As to the techs at Global, during my tenure with Canon I found the Global Dealers to be among the very best in the Independent Dealer Community especially in the Carolinas and AL. Can't speak beyond that. They wll NOT as you pointed out be the same people.

As to my understanding, the Total Satisfaction Guarantee will not include the Global machines. If Global has has a replacment Guarantee than I do not know about it.
As faw as how good the Global techs are, they might be great at working on the Canons. But, how long have they been workjing on Xeroxs. That would be my concern.

 

[jdkmfish]

what is the model number of your current machines.

We have a 7075 and 7060 Konica.

 

[random]

Oh dear, no wonder you service is patchy. The 75 is good but the 60, urghhhh. From our stable you would be looking at a 920. Has the same print controller as a 1050.

 

[sweatyclimber]

Hello all, my first post here.

Quick history worked for KM direct now a Global dealer...

To answer or clarify the issue... Each Global company has there own return/ satisfaction policies. The tech's at this point for the most part are very up to speed on fixing the equipment. In my experiance most direct operations opt to replace the equipment fairly quickly verse find/ solve the problem. At my location, doing a return is rare because we'll usually fix the problem. What most Global Company's will also do for you is provide you with a loaner while they fix it, and usually quicker then a direct would/ could.

I appreciate the nice comments about Global, what made the dealers you refrence so good is Global's method of doing business. Being (and still operating, even factoring Xerox) an independent dealer changes the focus. We make nothing, we only sell and support what we do. We also therefore are not as bound to the one size fits all method of sales or service the most direct's are. What that means is you will find we typically over time service equipment better because were not as bound by the "laws of how to service" that the directs have. Both methods work, the flexability in our method tends to allow us to solve the problem faster. Just one example... When I first move over to the Global dealer, they had fixed the KM1050's density issues by adjusting the Laser size. I told my friends about it at KM to help some former clients, and they were not alowed to make the fix for 8 months. On the flip side a direct only has one product to focus on and usually will be "up to speed" quicker. I would say from my experiance the bell curve of that benefit gives the direct about 4 months knowing the equipment better.

The key for direct or dealer is how many do they have in the field locally. If a direct as a company has thousands of your model in the field it will not help your service unless that branch has dealt with it specifically and regularly. The same is true with a dealer.

Regardless of who you choose:
1. Get and read the technical spec's sheets to make sure it will handle your jobs...
2. Document EVERY aspect of the negotiated deal so everyone is on the same page and understands the expectations.
3. Ask what if this goes wrong, understand the process. Most company's have one and want to help, usually when we don't know the process or are unclear on the expectations is when things turn out bad.... As in all things in life clear communication will be the key for a win for you.
4. This is not a must but a suggestion... Make sure its a win for you and your vendor. Vendor's always help "good" customers more regardless of industry. Good customers hold their vendor's feet to the fire and force them to be compeditive but also do not allow the vendor to "loose" on the negotiation.
5. Another suggestion. If you have a (to quote this forum) "90-day wonder" sales rep, make sure to get a manager involved and begin your relationship with them. The vendor side of this industry unfortunately does have a lot of turnover and you will want to have the expectations you set carry through your deal.
6. Lastly... Many forget... Request to meet your tech durring the demo. You'll have the best relationship with them. They are the key component... Why hire someone for you company through interviewing their friend? Interview your tech.

 

[smatros]

i would look at canon or xerox, both have excellent BW machines in several price ranges. Then I would choose by price / performance model and service response.

 

[PineyBob]

i would look at canon or xerox, both have excellent BW machines in several price ranges. Then I would choose by price / performance model and service response.

How does one determine whether a vendor really delivers what they promise on average service response times?

I've sold or trained in the "Office Products" industry since 1980 and I've yet to see a dealer say "We've got sucky service"

Get references you say? Ever have a potential vendor provide you with a POS reference?

When I worked for a large Rich dealer I used to say, "Here's $10.00 go down the street to company XXXX and buy some copies and ask him his opinion" We treated every customer like crap so the only way to get around it was to be bold and brash regarding how good our service was. In 2 years I NEVER had anyone take the ten bucks. In fact most signed the deal and got screwed. That's why I went into training.

There is an attitude in the Copier Biz known as "When it's Sold it's Gold" meaning once I have your signature on the contracts, product is delivered, D & A Signed, and funded by the leasing company it's "F you, Mr Customer". Fortunately that attitude is going away, but it's out there and woe be to the shop owner who encounters it.

The point to all of the above is you have to perform some really hard core Due Diligence when selecting a vendor. There is still to much of "It's Sold It's Gold" mentality out there and it can really damage your business. It's sad but I think it best to view my industry with a really large dose of paranoia. Remember just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you

 

[sweatyclimber]

The point to all of the above is you have to perform some really hard core Due Diligence when selecting a vendor. There is still to much of "It's Sold It's Gold" mentality out there and it can really damage your business. It's sad but I think it best to view my industry with a really large dose of paranoia. Remember just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you

Heh so true... there alway's out to get you! But really this is a great way to look at it... Its why its so important to clearly communicate (and document) expectations. If they are wanting to sell you more then one thing, they'll want this too. If not then they'll have the other attitude quoted above the "turn and burn" rep. Or the third option, they'll not know because there too new and just want to sell because there excited... either way you loose without outlining expectations.

 

[smatros]

How does one determine whether a vendor really delivers what they promise on average service response times?

We have in our servicing contract that after placing our call the service guy has to be at our premises withing 5 hours (during working hours). If not, I simply decline monthly payment for click charges. Of course this works only if you have a per-click model, in any case I think it can be arranged something that keeps you on the safe side.
But I agree, doing a due dilligence befor buying is a must.

 

[PineyBob]

We have in our servicing contract that after placing our call the service guy has to be at our premises withing 5 hours (during working hours). If not, I simply decline monthly payment for click charges. Of course this works only if you have a per-click model, in any case I think it can be arranged something that keeps you on the safe side.
But I agree, doing a due dilligence befor buying is a must.

If memory serves you are NOT in the States? You must have great negotiating skills as the arrangement you have is great.

I know of no dealer in the US that would entertain your arrangement which I think strikes a reasonable ballance.