Xerox iGen3 vs Kodak Nexpress S3000

[kiran.asiatic]

Hello,
We are planning to buy a digital press. But, now it is totally confusing to choose between iGen3 and Nexpress S3000. Both the suppliers are providing good offers. Could any one please advise me of the advantage or disadvantage of these presses.

Thanks in advance.

 

[lkl7255]

Hi There!

My first question is-- What are your key decision criteria? (Do you care the most about image quality? Range of substrates? Inline finishing options? Maintainence/service? Workflow options? Environmental friendliness? etc...)

I think hearing the advantages and disadvantages of the things you care about most for your business is critical

 

[pschill2]

Hello,
We are planning to buy a digital press. But, now it is totally confusing to choose between iGen3 and Nexpress S3000. Both the suppliers are providing good offers. Could any one please advise me of the advantage or disadvantage of these presses.

Thanks in advance.

Lindsay asks some very good questions. Just as important are the type of applications you'll be running. Are you in a typical commercial environment (brochures, direct mail, etc.)? Kodak is the only digital press that can offer dimensional printing, see more here KODAK NEXPRESS Intelligent Dimensional Coating Solution - Kodak Graphic Communications Group .

For others that may not know our NexPress family offers affordability, flexibility and productivity from our 2500, 3000 and 3600 models, more here NEXPRESS SE Class - Kodak Graphic Communications Group . And our S class machines have now been complemented by our newest SE-class NexPress presses which InfoTrends just issued a new analysis here Kodak Rolls Out NexPress SE Platform. By the way existing NexPress presses can take advantage of our SE upgrades. What other vendor can offer the latest upgrades to 5 year old or older presses with the latest in image quality, productivity and DIMENSIONAL capabilities without a FORKLIFT upgrade? Keep that in mind when making your purchase, its not always just about the purchase price of the press your considering today, but who can make your initial investment last the longest?

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Paul Schiller, Marketing Manager
Digital Print Solutions (B2B)

 

[ASM]

Hello Kiran,
I took a look at your website and it is apparent that there in Dubai, you are a high-quality offset printer. You have a KBA 105 and presses don't come much better than that! It seems your digital offering should at least be able to match the expectations of your high-quality offset in all aspects including coating. If I'm right, then I believe the NexPress will be your better choice. The NexGlosser all-over coating, the 5th colour spot coating and the dimensional textured printing are all finishes I was looking at just last week at a NexPress 2500 user and they are terrific. He also commented on the fact that colour consistency on NexPress is the best..same from first to 500th sheet. Kodak has further improved colour management on the SE series with Intelligent profiling. The iGen3 is a great machine but there are many who can offer toner digital output in this class. If you were looking only at Direct Marketing or digital-at-a-low-price I would say consider iGen but my take is you are a high-quality custom shop. One other advantage is that with NexPress, you can replace most components yourself, which may be advantageous in the UAE. The person I spoke to said they virtually do all their own 'service' - calling Kodak only when there is a serious need if ever. Because of the co-development with Heidelberg, NexPress is, as the above commentator notes, a very well built press that can be upgraded in the field. Oh, and you can print on more substrates on a NexPress...very extensive list of 'approved' papers. I don't work for either K or X!

 

[Predisposed]

Hope this helps

Hope this helps

Surely you mean the igen4, and why have you discounted the HP7000?
We have done extensive testing on the latest SE3600 Nexpress, indigo HP7000 and the igen4. All gave great results, the key points are quality against cost of print. HP7000 was the best for quality just beating the Xerox and the Nexpress but all three are good enough for most clients. NexPress and HP7000can use a wide variety of paper stocks, the igen4 is pretty limited, also there is a residual value on all these machines so don't fall for the Xerox scheme where you never ever own the kit at the end of the agreement. You will want to upgrade / change your machine in the future and if you have a press as part exchange your deal is going to be a lot better.
Pricing - all three will give you ridiculous prices to start with, but in todays market place they will come down a lot further than you think.
Don't forget if the machines are good enough quality and run at similar speeds they should all cost roughly the same. (They may disagree with you, but hey you have the power at this stage)
The click charges should be low too. Never go with what they offer you!
Reply if you need more info.

 

[kiran.asiatic]

Hi all,
Thanks for the immediate response.
We have a Xerox 8000 AP.
We are more into commercial printing and our jobs include almost all types of printing on various substrates. In digital printing too this applies. Still, a major chunk of our job includes books (color & black) which are printed on 80 gsm w/f. And in some seasons the machine has to run round the clock to cope with the mass volume to be finished in a very short deadline. Most of our clients love printing on textured cards, which is an impossible task most of the time as the image quality gets depleted.
Our expectation is to have a printer which is sturdy, has less breakdowns and economical.
Kiran

 

[Craig]

Why not look into a DI press or a highly automated 4 color offset? No limit on substrates with them.

 

[ASM]

Hi all,
a major chunk of our job includes books (color & black) which are printed on 80 gsm w/f. And in some seasons the machine has to run round the clock to cope with the mass volume to be finished in a very short deadline.

Hi Kiran,
Now this put a different perspective on it. I believe you may need two presses, one for the colour books or sections of books, and one for the B&W. For B&W book production using cut-sheet, look no further than the new Oce VP6000 series...instant duplex, prints on textured cards, low energy use, low Ozone, no toner wasted and models up to 330 pages per minute are available. If you have the Xerox 8000 maybe by splitting the colour and B&W, you can manage with it? Oce has a new production-splitting controller called PRISMAsync and it will work with Xerox too. If you do neet another colour press it will also work with the NexPress environment so colour pages are sent to the Nexpress and mono to the VP6000x.
Alternatively, how about a press taht does the colour at 168ppm and B&W at 840ppm and higher? The new Oce ColorStream10000 Flex speeds up for mono sections and charges only a mono click. It's web-fed so you would need finishing equipment that handles reels but you would be able to blast through busy times with this machine as you can print book signatures 'n-up'
Just some thoughts for you....

 

[X33]

Hi all,
Thanks for the immediate response.
We have a Xerox 8000 AP.
We are more into commercial printing and our jobs include almost all types of printing on various substrates. In digital printing too this applies. Still, a major chunk of our job includes books (color & black) which are printed on 80 gsm w/f. And in some seasons the machine has to run round the clock to cope with the mass volume to be finished in a very short deadline. Most of our clients love printing on textured cards, which is an impossible task most of the time as the image quality gets depleted.
Our expectation is to have a printer which is sturdy, has less breakdowns and economical.
Kiran

You could print color and black & white pages on the Xerox iGen without significantly incrementing your costs (in the US at least). Send the whole job as one, and it will come out collated and finished (perfect bound, hard cover, etc) at the end.

Textured paper, yes with iGen. The way the iGen lays down toner on the paper is by using some kind of ultrasound waves designed to push the toner into those textures. You have to see some samples.

 

[arossetti]

Oce has a new production-splitting controller called PRISMAsync and it will work with Xerox too. If you do neet another colour press it will also work with the NexPress environment so colour pages are sent to the Nexpress and mono to the VP6000x.

This is incorrect, the PRISMAsync only works with the Oce color server for the KM product line. So unless you can get a Oce color server on a X8000ap, this will not work. You would still have to do it manually.

 

[KW4848]

Kiran,
Since you mentioned you need a sturdy press with less breakdowns - support will also be important. We have a Xerox and receive excellent support. On the rare occasion we have support problems Xerox managers are helpful in getting problems resolved quickly. Our sales rep has been knowledgeable and helpful as well.

The NexPress was originally built by Heidelberg, so it’s a solid press. However, Kodak purchased the rights to sell it a few years. One of the reasons we did not go with the Nexpress is the current poor support we receive from Kodak for our Prinergy system. Our own sales rep now recommends against upgrading Prinergy. Although he has tried to be helpful at times, he explained when he brings problems to the attention of the area manager, he is not that helpful in resolving problems and unfortunately complains about customers. Even when he talks to the areas manager’s boss, the response is the same.

Good luck in your decision.

 

[lkl7255]

Hi Kiran,

You can be trained to do iGen maintenance too, so you won't be relying on xerox service. One thing to add to KW’s post about Xerox service, is that we have won the JD Power and Associate’s award for service three years in a row… which isn’t easy to do.

I would like to emphasize the iGen’s substrate range too. It is NOT limited… it can definitely print on textured stocks, and we can also print a 22.5 x 14.33 size paper which allows you to fit more up on a page (thus increasing your productivity and profitability per page), and my favorite is the full-sheet magnet stock. You can print on custom sized stocks, various coatings, weights up to 350gsm... so there is a lot of flexibility.

I think ultimately you need to look at the whole end-to-end solution... which would integrate best with your current workflow? Are you concerned about environmental friendliness? Aside from books, are there other kinds of jobs you'd like to grow your business into (does each press allow you room to grow)? Do you require inline finishing or have an offline bindery?...
There is a lot to consider

I’m not a xerox sales rep, but if you would like some book samples, textured stock samples, or need me to get any information for you, please let me know.

 

[hopper]

which is better?

which is better?

iGen3/4 or NexPress

Having worked for both company in development and in the field I seen both presses work at different levels. I helped launch the iGen 3 when it was introduced. I also installed NexPresses worldwide.

The questions presented in the topic are interesting. Given what I know about both machines the iGen 3 and 4 out performes the NexPress built at its time from the 2100 to the present. The iGen has a greater range of media, larger sheet size and duty cycle. The workflow to the iGen without extta applications is more diverse. This is not to say that the NexPress is not a good press it however is not on the same level as an iGen.

Dementional printing is an interesting gimick. However the duty cycle of the press and workflow is why you purchase a press. If the press is not able to print it is costing you money, even worse if the print is of poor quality and not sellable its costing you. The iGen 4 has internal color calibrations to insure that the color is correct sheet to sheet, inboard to outboard and day to day. The NexPress does not have this ability. The daily process to get a NexPress running for production can take 1 hour (not including developer changes, and replacing the web), the iGen 4 you never do a developer change and the photoreceptor is a 10 min operation.

Workflow the second key to the equaltion. No-one and argue that Kodak has a good workflow with Printergy. But this workflow is costly, and designed for an offset world. If you purchase the digital package it intergrates with the NexPress as well as the iGen. Xerox brings to the table years of digital printing. The workflow tools are simple and easy Xerox has several ways to automate workflows to anyone environment.

Okay what about variable data! VI printing from the NexPress is the open standard of VDX, this is a nice standard xml data with pdf content. It is an open standard which is great for the consumer. Xerox has VIPP, VPS, PS/PPML in its list, most of these are not open standards but are the file formats of the dfe you pick. Xerox offers more choices, NexPress offers you an open standard but this format is only consumed by NexPress. Because of these facts Xerox comes out ahead in offreings. Also whichever application that you pick to generate the VPS you would have to pay extra for the driver and that same applications most likely could generat the file format for the iGen.


___________________________________________________________
Enough what about the environment?

The iGen is a green machine and Rohs complient.

the iGen functions very well under bad conditions, high temps and low humidity. The NexPress shuts down if the temperature can not be cntrolled.

____________________________________________________________
What about the installation?

The iGen only requires electrical conections, a heat vent and a water drain, as well as space.

The NexPress, electrical, water supply, drain, vent, and compressed air. Here is the only true advantage its smaller.

I have seen hard water shut down a NexPress for a week. Poor compressed air quaility cause image defects (the webs tension is controlled by air pressure).

____________________________________________________________
In the end the iGen is a better press, for the cost the NexPress isn't bad butthe two are not in the same league. The iGen is better.

 

[Printmailman]

Hello,
We are planning to buy a digital press. But, now it is totally confusing to choose between iGen3 and Nexpress S3000. Both the suppliers are providing good offers. Could any one please advise me of the advantage or disadvantage of these presses.

Thanks in advance.

If you decide to go with a S3000 I may have a 2 year old system coming available for sale. Let me know if you want to know more about it.,
[email protected]

 

[salecha]

Greetings.
Please let me know, when it will be available. Who was servicing the machine all these years?
What is the expected price, without dismantling & packing? I would arrange for dismantling & transportation on my own.

 

[fabianboxi]

I have a question... The cost per sheet on the igen3 whats is it?(11 x 17 inches, 300 grams glosssy).