Standard Finishing
4Over

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

HP Indigo Deinkable?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • HP Indigo Deinkable?

    HP says Indigo is deinkalbe.

    The new EN 643 standard for paper for recycling, Indigo printer waste is now also formally “unwanted material” for deinking.



    Axel Fischer of INGEDE - the International Association of the Deinking Industry is very well respected in the deinking industry.

    There are recyling mills in the US that will not knowingly accept Indigo printed material

    Maybe HP Indigo printed materials should go to a plastic recycler. They can recyle the polyethylene film then send the waste paper to a paper recycler.

    HP Expands Environmental Sustainability Initiatives with HP Indigo - WhatTheyThink

  • #2
    Is this a statement of sorts, or is this a question you want feedback on ?
    Michael Jahn - Slightly used PDF Evangelist
    Simi Valley California

    Comment


    • #3
      Looking for opinions and other view points. HP has way too much riding on the recyclablity of Indigo printed products. If your process has earned unwanted material for recycling that is a giant blow and Greenwashing to the nth degree.

      Comment


      • #4
        Maybe we should just burn all the waste paper and reclaim the energy.

        Growing a tree takes out CO2 from the air and burning it releases it. Zero sum. But energy is gained which we are losing now. Trees are a form of solar energy. The sun provides the energy for tree growth and then the energy can be harvested by burning and making steam to drive a generator.
        Last edited by Erik Nikkanen; 01-28-2014, 03:54 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Erik Nikkanen View Post
          Maybe we should just burn all the waste paper and reclaim the energy.

          Growing a tree takes out CO2 from the air and burning it releases it. Zero sum. But energy is gained which we are losing now. Trees are a form of solar energy. The sun provides the energy for tree growth and then the energy can be harvested by burning and making steam to drive a generator.
          Pretty sure trees and all green plants produce CO2 at night and then oxygen during the day. There was an earlier thread about the indigo ink not being de inkable. I brought this up to my bosses and they did not want to hear about it. Sometimes being green means you have to turn a deaf ear.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by RGPW17100 View Post
            Pretty sure trees and all green plants produce CO2 at night and then oxygen during the day.
            Yes, they take up CO2 and give off O2 in the day and the opposite in the night but the amounts are not equal. All the carbon mass of the wood in the tree comes from CO2 in the air. I find that kind of amazing.
            Last edited by Erik Nikkanen; 01-28-2014, 09:08 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Deinkability of HP Indigo

              HP ink is deinkable. Several recycling plants use out-dated deinking systems that worked well for conventional offset but do not work for water-based inkjet, liquid toners, or water-based flexographic inks. Several studies have been performed at recycling mills with large concentrations of Indigo-printed materials that resulted in Deinkability Scores of Good (the highest rating). I find it curious that the 'Indigo Incident' press release is still prominently displayed on Ingede's site but none of the lab tests, pilot studies or deniability scores have made it on Ingede's site.

              Comment


              • #8
                That's engineering for you.

                Al

                Comment


                • #9
                  I run a 3500. Don't have much makeready to speak of. And by the end of the day, not a whole lot of waste. Is this really an issue? Besides, how would the end user of printed materials produced from Indigo presses even know that they were produced by Indigos and how / where would they be sending them to be De-inked?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jinthebay View Post
                    Besides, how would the end user of printed materials produced from Indigo presses even know that they were produced by Indigos and how / where would they be sending them to be De-inked?
                    You've just described why this is an issue. The end user wouldn't possibly know. All materials would be de-inked en masse, and non-comptable material that is not de-inkable could degrade the recycling process, even in small amounts. The studies I've seen weren't entirely unfavorable towards Indigo's liquid toner, but inkjet ink was an issue.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Erik Nikkanen View Post
                      Maybe we should just burn all the waste paper and reclaim the energy.
                      A possibility, but that would reduce the amount of recycled material available, and therefore put more emphasis on the growth of new trees and harvesting of existing trees. This takes a toll on the environment as well.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by meddington View Post
                        A possibility, but that would reduce the amount of recycled material available, and therefore put more emphasis on the growth of new trees and harvesting of existing trees. This takes a toll on the environment as well.

                        I was trying to be partly facetious but also providing an option. Before a lot of the recycling was being done, trees were being managed like farming. This was especially done in Scandinavia. Trees were harvested and trees were planted. Is farming bad for the environment. I can be if done improperly but if it is to be sustainable it would need to be done properly. Why would you assume harvesting trees is bad for the environment?

                        What is bad for the environment is harvesting oil and coal since it can not be in a cycle to reclaim CO2 from the air.

                        I don't know what is done now but in Sweden, incineration was used to recover energy from household waste. Incineration is not popular in North America and the result is large landfills. Trees are a form of solar energy. Solar energy is bad for the environment?

                        I don't know what is the best solution but I am suggesting that one should not assume some options are bad and reject them out of hand.

                        One option related to paper waste from printing is "Don't print". Do you like that one? Probably not.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Erik Nikkanen View Post
                          Why would you assume harvesting trees is bad for the environment?
                          Appologies for going off topic, but...
                          Harvesting existing forests destroys ecosystems and replaces them with monoculture plantation environments more like a corn field. Pre-existing flora and fauna are displaced completely and likely irreversably. Trees replanted are generally genetically modified to grow faster, using significantly more water resources while making the soil more acidic. Moreover, studies suggest that monoculture plantations don't capture as much C02 as restored forests.

                          I don't know a lot about the impact of incineration, but if the industry currently utilizes recycled material, incinerating it shifts the stress to other areas rather than eliminates it.

                          Originally posted by Erik Nikkanen View Post
                          One option related to paper waste from printing is "Don't print". Do you like that one? Probably not.
                          I'm actually quite pragmatic when it comes to the print industry's footprint on the environment, so yes, printing less often is something I support. Options other than print have their own footprint, so I'm an advocate for process control and quality efforts that reduce waste, in addition to finding better ways to manage forest resources. In my opinion the print industry tends to gloss over this issue and pretend it doesn't exist.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by meddington View Post
                            Appologies for going off topic, but...
                            Harvesting existing forests destroys ecosystems and replaces them with monoculture plantation environments more like a corn field. Pre-existing flora and fauna are displaced completely and likely irreversably. Trees replanted are generally genetically modified to grow faster, using significantly more water resources while making the soil more acidic. Moreover, studies suggest that monoculture plantations don't capture as much C02 as restored forests.

                            I don't know a lot about the impact of incineration, but if the industry currently utilizes recycled material, incinerating it shifts the stress to other areas rather than eliminates it.


                            I'm actually quite pragmatic when it comes to the print industry's footprint on the environment, so yes, printing less often is something I support. Options other than print have their own footprint, so I'm an advocate for process control and quality efforts that reduce waste, in addition to finding better ways to manage forest resources. In my opinion the print industry tends to gloss over this issue and pretend it doesn't exist.
                            Your probably right about the environment and if the studies have shown that, well that should be what leads us. Of course if there is no money in forest, no one will maintain them. Maybe that is the way it should be.


                            I just found this. It might be of interest.

                            http://www.midwestenergynews.com/201...little-debate/
                            Last edited by Erik Nikkanen; 01-30-2014, 04:50 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by pfmagic View Post
                              HP ink is deinkable. Several recycling plants use out-dated deinking systems that worked well for conventional offset but do not work for water-based inkjet, liquid toners, or water-based flexographic inks. Several studies have been performed at recycling mills with large concentrations of Indigo-printed materials that resulted in Deinkability Scores of Good (the highest rating). I find it curious that the 'Indigo Incident' press release is still prominently displayed on Ingede's site but none of the lab tests, pilot studies or deniability scores have made it on Ingede's site.
                              Do you know which recycling mills have done this? What was there yield? Do you know of any mills that have done live production runs?

                              Comment

                              UltimateDuploSmartsoft (Presswise)4OverStandard FinishingKBA
                              UltimateDuplo4OverStandard FinishingKBAKBA

                              What's Going On

                              Collapse

                              There are currently 4393 users online. 77 members and 4316 guests.

                              Most users ever online was 6,151 at 11:36 AM on 11-17-2017.

                              Working...
                              X