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"digitized" output from PDF's

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  • "digitized" output from PDF's

    A client, printer, said produce a business card from this artwork.
    I did and sent him a PDF from PMaker, PressQuality, K only.
    System is Windows XP Pro SP2, PM6.5, Acrobat 7, ID-CS2.
    He sent the PDF to his producer who bounced it saying the "file was digitized".
    Found out that that means a bunch of dots, output not vector looking at all.
    Sent him another PDF from PMaker, PDFX-1a.
    Same result, and this time he prints the PDF on his copier, same result.
    On my laser looks fine, of course.
    Bad file, no. Send him a different file for a different client, same result.
    Import original file into ID-CS2. Output a PressQuality, SWOP sep. (no marking except on K sep.) PDF.
    Send it to him, same result.
    Send the PDF directly to his producer, same result.
    He now says, fix it, I'm not sending any more files to my producer until...
    No changes to my computer for several months. My PDF's “seem” to work
    fine for 5 other, different, producers. Only recent problem with his copier
    and one particular producer he uses.
    Anyone have a way to look at the internals of a PDF?
    System or application corrupted?
    Don't know how to make a PDF? All the above?

  • #2
    Re: "digitized" output from PDF's

    Did you ask his producer what product/method was used to see this
    "digitized" output? Did you ask them to send you a screen shot or digital
    photo of printed output?



    • #3
      Re: "digitized" output from PDF's

      Any chance you could upload the PDF to here, or email it to me at the address in my profile ?
      "you never know how the past is going to turn out"


      • #4
        Re: "digitized" output from PDF's

        The problem is probably with "separation/spot black" being imaged by the device as a "screened back" black. Probably like 80%-85% black. The blacks need to be converted to "device gray". If they image them that way the blacks should be solid.

        I bet this is a Konica device right?

        Send me the PDF and I'll convert it to device gray for you.
        matt )@(
        Matt Beals
        The views expressed here are my own personal views and are not those of my employer.


        • #5
          Re: "digitized" output from PDF's

          Thanks for the reply Leonard Rosenthol,

          I'll ask the "printer" to help me get in touch with his producer.
          I have on a few occasions called the "producer" but their responses has mostly been, we receive hundreds of pdf's a day and only have problems with yours. Not too much help.
          Don't know is a screen shot has enough resolution.
          The dots are only visable with a loop or good eyes.
          I'm 70 years of age and can no longer see such dots unaided (used to take my glasses off and look at halftone dots without problem}.


          • #6
            Re: "digitized" output from PDF's

            Thanks Matt,
            I'll send the pdf directly to you. Too big to post here.
            I'll also search the forums for "device gray".


            • #7
              Re: "digitized" output from PDF's

              The producer printed the piece and delivered it to my client.
              The printout definatly had small dots in the type and lineart.
              Additional info. in new post to this thread.
              Thanks for your interest.


              • #8
                Re: "digitized" output from PDF's

                Hello all,
                More info.
                My client sent the "bad" PDF to another producer who said, "works fine".
                Thanks to Matt Beals, who changed my PDF to device gray for me, the bad PDF printed well on my client's copier.
                Appears that my client's original producer has a problem with the PDF's I produce. Haven't solved that one yet.
                I may get the chance to create another PDF, try to make the color space device gray (if I can determine how to do that), and send it to my client's first producer. We'll see what happens. I'm beginning to think that when that producer said that the only problems thay have are with my files they may have been streching the truth. Or maybe I'm the only one who uses a PC, as opposed to a MAC.


                • #9
                  Re: "digitized" output from PDF's

                  Some printers are famous for "snow jobbing" clients with false errors to mask processing or production "problems".
                  Matt Beals
                  The views expressed here are my own personal views and are not those of my employer.


                  • #10
                    Re: "digitized" output from PDF's

                    Hello Matt,
                    Your response may be true for my current problem.
                    My problem is also that I have no control over the print provider.
                    My clients send, or use, my files by whomever thay choose; usually the least expensive.
                    All my clients are those who do not have a prepress department, micro or small "printers".

                    So, any good way to determin if I'm producing good PDF's?
                    I do all the preflighting I can with Acrobat.
                    I always ask the client who thay're going to sent the file too so I can contact their web site and see
                    if the're any "specifications" stated. If the client is a print provider the same questions are asked.
                    Nothing like producing files/plates for many different print providers. LOL.


                    • #11
                      Re: "digitized" output from PDF's

                      There was nothing wrong with the PDF that you sent me. It should have printed perfectly the way it was. All the colors were device CMYK, black only. It was as good of a PDF as anyone could ask for. Why did it print improperly? Well it could a couple of things. First thing that comes to mind is "operator error" and the other is "Proper Previous Planning Prevents Pathetically Poor Printing" (read: hardware/software vendor did a crappy job). I've seen a number of black and white printers ( and some color copiers) halftone "black" objects that were spot/separation black, device CMYK "k" but not RGB gray/black. So I tend to convert all black to device gray or rich black when going to such devices. The root of the problem *I think* is that the internal RIP's are just poorly implemented. So we have to resort to such digital trickery to get the desired results.
                      Matt Beals
                      The views expressed here are my own personal views and are not those of my employer.


                      • #12
                        Re: "digitized" output from PDF's

                        Thanks to Matt and Peter I think I'm convinced that this particular client's print provider is just BSing us. I'll continue to produce my PDF's as I always have and if the need arises atempt to produce one with DeviceGray as the color space. I've yet to learn how to do that.
                        Thanks all who responded to my question and for letting me know that the basic problem was not mine. I'm much more relaxed than I was before this all started. 'tis a shame some print providers won't tell the truth so problems could be resoulved in a more expident manner.
                        Thanks again.


                        • #13
                          Re: "digitized" output from PDF's

                          Hello all,
                          An update to my last post.
                          Have found a work-around for my problem print producer.
                          Seems the're using a Xante plate maker for their B&W files. Don't know if there's a RIP in this equation.

                          If I use the export function the problem always arises, in PageMaker or IDCS2
                          If I, instead, do a File-Print to the Adobe PDF printer the resulting PDF is perfect, dot wise, both on my end, my clients, and his print producer.

                          Perhaps there is a problem with MY system. Have not reinstalled the Adobe apps. since both PM and ID had the problem.

                          Again thanks to all how responded to my plea.

                          Edited by: JohnS on May 18, 2008 9:52 PM


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