Standard Finishing
4Over

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Focoltone Question

Collapse
Canon
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Focoltone Question

    I believe that the Focoltone system is similar to Pantone in that it is used to specify spot colors, however, the base inks to make those spots are C,M,Y,K rather than special base colors such as those used by Pantone. Is that correct?

    http://www.kikuze.com/focoltone/html...swatchbook.jsp

    Do the base CMYK inks conform to the ISO spec? Any info would be appreciated.

    thx, gordo

  • #2
    Re: Focoltone Question

    >Do the base CMYK inks conform to the ISO spec? Any info would be appreciated.

    That information does seem lacking from their website and documentation doesn't it? It looks as if the answer to that question would be...it doesn't matter as ICCS is meant to "calibrate" the output device in question to a "generic offset CMYK standards" using a reference calibration chart and a scanner. Yikes.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Focoltone Question

      Hi Gordan
      Focoltone has been around for years - it was developed in Wales - really just a set of CMYK tint charts - they then used gold or silver metalics as a base (similar to MetalFX. )

      I remember about 10 years ago going to a printer in Singapour and he had bought the company ( or the rights- I think it had gone bust) - I saw him at a few exhibitions and then lost touch.

      The main difference was it worked in 10 % tint steps rather than Pantone trying to match a solid colour. ( THe sell to the agencies was - All your work is printed in CMYK so why not choose it to start with. There was also talk about not needing to trap (the logo) because it was CMYK.
      Love or hate Pantone - it will be a brave man to try and compete against it
      Peter

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Focoltone Question

        I thought that they used CMYK inks as base colors to create spot colors - not proces screen tint builds simulating spot colors. Is this not correct?

        thx, gordo

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Focoltone Question

          *I thought that they used CMYK inks as base colors to create spot colors - not proces screen tint builds simulating spot colors. Is this not correct?*

          I am not sure I understand the question - Focoltone colours were always made up of CMYK tints
          Peter

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Focoltone Question

            My understanding is that Focoltone colours were not made up of CMYK tints. That their claimed advantage over the Pantone System was that their solid spot colors were made of mixes using CMYK inks and hence within CMYK gamut. So, you could have a specific Focoltone color created as a single spot ink (e.g. for one or two color jobs or as a 5th color) or have it made up as screen tint builds in 4/C process work and end up with the same hue. This is quite different from the Pantone system which does not map well to CMYK simulations.
            Perhaps there is someone in the UK who could look at a Focoltone swatch book uder a loupe and can confirm?

            thx, gordo

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Focoltone Question

              Gordan

              What u said amazed me - it was only CMYK tints when I used it . Its been off the UK scene - must be 10 years. I looked on their web site and it, as u say does mention spot colours - so who knows

              P
              I am getting to old to learn new things!!!!!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Focoltone Question

                >My understanding is that Focoltone colours were not made up of CMYK tints. That their claimed advantage over the Pantone System was that their solid spot colors were made of mixes using CMYK inks and hence within CMYK gamut.

                I can't verify with a swatch book, but the Focoltone library within Photoshop is defined by CMYK percentages. And to be compatable with digital printer devices, as the ICCS is geared towards, it would have to be defined by tints. Can't really conceivably mix toners after all.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Focoltone Question

                  Greeting from Singapore.

                  It had been awhile from some of my old friends, was told of this discussion and decided to join in.

                  Focoltone is *Fo*ur *col*ors *tone*, originally created for combination of CMYK tints.
                  Unlike Pantone Matching System (PMS) which used 18 colors and transparent white, it was created as an ink mix for special colors.
                  PMS has a wider color gamut, and it’s impossible to simulate and match with CMYK process color printing.
                  Focoltone colors are CMYK combinations, thus can be printed within CMYK color gamut.
                  For e.g., parts per 100 gms ink mix,
                  ........................C..........M..........Y... .......K......Tran. white
                  FCS 1000.........0........5.26.....14.59.....5.54..... .74.61
                  FCS 1001......2.35......6.61.....19.17.......0........ ..71.81

                  X 10 = gms per Kilo or divide 6.25 = oz. per lb.

                  Edited by: Winson Lan on Jan 4, 2008 10:57 PM

                  Edited by: Winson Lan on Jan 4, 2008 11:03 PM

                  Edited by: Winson Lan on Jan 4, 2008 11:11 PM

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Focoltone Question

                    Thank you Wilson,

                    This appears to confirm that Focoltone colors are solid colors - not screen tint builds. The colors are made by mixing CMY and K base inks in different proportions - the same method that Pantone uses for their colors except that Pantone uses a special set of base colors. Correct?

                    thx gordo

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Focoltone Question

                      Focoltone color patches swatch book are screen % of CMYK printed on an offset press.
                      The color patches are in steps of 5-10% CMYK combination tints, no 11.5% or 3.5%, etc, unlike Pantone Simulator to CMYK.
                      For tint values e.g.,
                      ........................C..........M.........Y.... .....K
                      FCS 1000.........15........30...…..50...…..25
                      FCS 1001....…..15..…..30...…..50.....….0

                      I've replied earlier with e.g. of ink mix formula as the question was on solid or spot color.
                      Four colors tone, originally created for combination of CMYK tints. As it’s within CMYK color gamut, we can have the swatch colors printed in tints and simulate with CMYK + Transparent White to mix to spot colors. It’s both usages.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Focoltone Question

                        Hi Peter,

                        Still alive and kicking. We win some and we lost some.
                        The focus is in ICCS with OEM.
                        It had been a very expensive hobby so far with lots of FUNds.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Focoltone Question

                          Hello Peter,

                          Are you based in the UK. Are you a designer or printer? please?

                          I was involved in all the early research and development of Focoltone in the UK and can probably answer all your questions.

                          The original system ( which had the first patents in the printing industry since 1929) was created to supply the designers with a CMYK choice of colour. A swatch book was produced that was created inside this colour space.

                          Subsequently the colour laboratories of Focoltone provided the ink mixes ( not dots) of the standard CMYK inks ( Briitsh European and American inks) so that any colour laboratory could produce a kilo of ink that could be printed as a solid colour and that would match the CMYK percentage tints of a four colour process piece of work.

                          This meant that if the designer specified a Focoltone colour for a logo , for example then on the computer screen or TV screen ( red green and blue) or on a printed piece of literature with dots, the colour would appear very similar.

                          If then the logo needed to be produced for say a letterhead then the colurs would match.

                          The Pantone original system was only solid colours and most of these lie outside the colour space of CMYK. So if a corporate identity was in Pantone then is was impossible to produce using CMYK.

                          Please ask me any more questions you would like and I will try to help

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Focoltone Question

                            Hi Ann,

                            I was the one who posted the original question regarding Focoltone.
                            Is Focoltone currently a solid spot color system that uses CMYK inks as base inks - i.e. similar to Pantone except that Pantone uses their own proprietary base inks?
                            Is Focoltone also a process 4/C screen tint build system where colors are specified using halftone screen tint builds?

                            Do the base CMYK inks conform to the ISO spec?

                            thx, gordo

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Focoltone Question

                              Hi Gordon

                              Comment

                              4OverStandard FinishingDuploSmartsoft (Presswise)AleyantCanonKBA
                              Standard FinishingDuploAleyantCanonGraph Expo4 PeesLabelexpoKBAKBA4OverSmartsoft (Presswise)

                              What's Going On

                              Collapse

                              There are currently 4535 users online. 92 members and 4443 guests.

                              Most users ever online was 6,597 at 10:25 AM on 04-20-2018.

                              Working...
                              X