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ISO 12647

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  • ISO 12647

    Is there any information about the implementation of ISO 12647 and its recommended aim values avaialble for free?

    My company does not trake a pro active approach to colour management but i would like to check if our sheets would pass these standards.

    I have a good ammount of info about the G7 Method but the uk seems to be ISO friendly at the moment.

    Cheers Paul.

  • #2
    Re: ISO 12647

    Paul

    A quick guide for coated paper is Ink Densities when wet --- CM 1.5 Y 1 , K 1.8 --- 50% tints CMY = 64% + -4% and K 67& +-4% Sequence needs to be KCMY otherwise u wont hit the CM overprint.

    If you have a spectro let me know and I will email u a spread sheet to play with

    Lab targets with DE of 5

    C 54 -36 -49
    M 46 72 -5
    Y 88 -6 90
    K 16 0 0

    Peter

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    • #3
      Re: ISO 12647

      Thank you Peter i will check sheets today and see how they fair, do you have the LAB ref for the overprint patches as these intrest me the most as we run magenta before cyan and i was hoping to see how far out we were, thanks for the offer of the spectro spreadsheet that would be great.

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      • #4
        Re: ISO 12647

        Paul,

        Mediastandard Print of the german bvdm is freely available - also in english. Check out [http://www.bvdm-online.de/Aktuelles/Downloads.php]

        There you will also find the requested information next to a lot of other usefull stuff.

        Regards,

        Peter Kleinheider

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        • #5
          Re: ISO 12647

          It should be noted that the Lab values given are with black backing. Same targets with white (self) backing are

          C 55 -37 -50
          M 48 74 -3
          Y 89 -5 93
          K 16 0 0

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          • #6
            Re: ISO 12647

            Peter
            I agree this is a very good publication and tried to find the link lats night - has the latest one been translated into English yet

            Peter

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            • #7
              Re: ISO 12647

              Paul
              I enclose a copy of a report produced using Bodini's software (its about £1200 and uses a little spectro eye on rails to do the measurements)
              It gives u an idea - the scoring system is for a PM company - as you can see I didnt get 100% becau of the 75% grey balance being out of target - Grey balance and overprints are not really part of the standard.

              Peter

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              • #8
                Re: ISO 12647

                Thanks everyone for the input, i have checked the sheets today with my densitometer, please take these with a pinch of salt as the last time the absoloute zero was re-calibrated was about 2 years ago ( paper showing 99.4,-2.7,-2.3) for a 150 silk. When i get magenta to weight 1.45, i get 49.5 82.5 -5.2 so as the A channel is reading to red i reduce the ink weight to 1.35 which improves the A channel but then the L and B channels get worse? Is this a common problem cause by the ink, the device or are compromises like this required.

                Also if i add up the difference in all the channels between the target and the actual does the difference give me the delta E difference. I hope anybody can make sense of this

                cheers paul

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                • #9
                  Re: ISO 12647

                  Paul
                  This where I get abit lost but I didnt think u could measure Lab with a Densitometer -

                  Also I took lab readings of all the art silks and matt that I could find in the UK and never saw one with a L reading of 99 - The readings usually were L 95 ish - the A was 1 ish and the B was 4 - 6 (becuase of the whiteners in the paper.

                  I also measure the sheet when wet - and always use 115gsm gloss (thats what ISO state.) using black backing

                  To get the correct lab's I ran solids at veriying densities and then next day choose the closest one. Also remember that your ink can be a DE of 2 out to start.

                  peter

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                  • #10
                    Re: ISO 12647

                    First off thanks for the spreedsheet its proving usefull, the reason i said densitometer is because its a handheld device vipdens 2000 which does colometery as well as densitmetery. When you say spectro i asume you mean a device like a the heidelberg image control center or a inline system which scans the colour bars for you and gives you the values at a control desk. The device must be well out of callibration as some stock had a L of 103 with most white stock reading 2 on the A and B channels, hopefully ill push for abs zero card to re-calibrate too soon but its difficult trying to keep with the times when the customers dont demand we run to these standards (as yet) A big thankyou to everyone who has chiped in hopefully now when th equestion of iso compliance is asked i can give a more educated answer.

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                    • #11
                      Re: ISO 12647

                      Paul
                      An easy way forward is to use a grey balance patch on your colour bar Try and make sure these are all grouped together -

                      Solid Cyan, Solid Magenta ,Solid Yellow, Solid Black ,50% black and one CMY grey patch (50%C 40%M 40%Y)

                      run linear plates from your platesetter (ie 50% = 50% on the plate

                      Set the densities up to about the figues I mentioned and the 50%K patch should match the 50% grey patch. If it does then you are very close to be in tolerance - linear plates will most likey give you at 175# a little more dot gain - but it is the relationship of CMY that causes the colour shifts on jobs - not usually that the colours are a little heavier.

                      Although the numbers may be different I dont think this is a lot different than the G7 method - in fact because of linear plates your 175# may give Dot gain at about 50 = 67% which is the midpoint bewteen Fogra and G7 - but I may stand corrected here.

                      Peter

                      It

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                      • #12
                        Re: ISO 12647

                        Hi there, have checked all dot gains on press and there bang on to the spec at standard weights, plates have a 4% curve on them as liner gave mid tone TVI of around 18 -20 %. I might buy a abs zero t card from printtools.org then I can be sure the device is giving me a reasonable result. Untill then thanks all and happy printing.

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                        • #13
                          Re: ISO 12647

                          Paul

                          Now run your proofs out to the ISOCaotedV2 profile available free on the eci site - if your proofer is calibrated - you may be surprised how ell they match

                          Peter

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