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Color Management with Staccato documents?

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  • Color Management with Staccato documents?

    Can anyone suggest a good book or white paper about color management with FM screening?

    I saw an older thread that referenced a color management book, but I was wondering if there is one out there specifically written for staccato.

  • #2
    Re: Color Management with Staccato documents?


    We print staccato 20 / 25 - In regards to Colour management, we follow ISO target dot gain targets on press, then create profiles for use on the epson 9800, we have to create our own profiles, due to the increased colour Gamut on press.

    We have struggled matching certain colours, when proofing straight to fogra39 standards

    Dan Marshall


    • #3
      Re: Color Management with Staccato documents?

      What u can't do with FM screening is run linear plates - the dot gain would be too high .

      An easy test is to print two sets of plates to the same density (one existing screen and one FM) - both with a 25 50 and 75% patches on and then adjust the plate curve on your Ctp machine so the FM screen matches your existing screen -

      That is unless you want your FM to be set to G7 if so, follow their method.



      • #4
        Re: Color Management with Staccato documents?

        The Idealink Curve tool will do a decent Job of taming the FM screening but
        if your trying to match a conventional proof or printing you may need to Device Link it
        as the fm trapping is something curves can not correct for.



        • #5
          Re: Color Management with Staccato documents?

          John you seem to know an awful lot about Staccato - can you explain what the trapping issues are



          • #6
            Re: Color Management with Staccato documents?

            Hi Peter

            I wouldn't say I know an awful lot but we do deal with it all the time here.
            We are constantly asked to print FM20 and match a 175 L/S proof.

            If your images have allot of color they tend to run too Saturated where
            as your grays will be neutral and the correct tonality after custom curves are applied.

            So just using curves will get you pleasing color but if you want an exact match you will need to
            desaturate the brighter colors from the extended color gamut. Maybe trap wasn't the correct term
            in my original post.

            Usually you will see more of a trap issue going from a #1 grade paper to an uncoated, that again will be
            close with curves but to get the bright colors of the #1 sheet you will need to Device Link it .

            It seems like our customers like to print FM20 on #3 or worse paper on our Webs and want clean bright vibrant color on
            uncoated stocks.



            • #7
              Re: Color Management with Staccato documents?

              Hi John

              What are device links?

              We constantly have issue's supplying proofs which clearly represent the print on uncoated papers and sometimes coated papers. Have you had any experience in this.

              We proof to ISO Standard (fogra) for all jobs and im sure this is incorrect because we print staccato. I think what we need to do is create bespoke proofing profiles as follows:

              Coated Board - Use Bespoke Profile created from the test form ECI target
              Uncoated - use Bespoke Profile created from the test form ECI target

              If i do this will I me able to get a good match on our epson 9800 ?


              • #8
                Re: Color Management with Staccato documents?

                Hi Dan

                A Device link Profile is a profile that converts from one color space directly to another color space without going through a PCS (L*A*B*)

                There are many options within a Device Link application that allow you to
                Retain your black separation, pure colors and also to use GCR for ink savings.

                Device Links are useful for making one device mimic another, commonly used in proofing rips and plating.

                Yes if you make custom(Bespoke) profiles of your coated board paper and uncoated you should be able to
                use them in your proofer provided your using a decent rip.

                You could also separate using these profiles as well.



                • #9
                  Re: Color Management with Staccato documents?

                  Hi John

                  THanks for that I print about 100 sets of colour a day (nearly all Staccato20) - so we have seen virtually everything - unfortunatly seeing and understanding what has happend isnt the same :-)



                  • #10
                    Re: Color Management with Staccato documents?


                    We run into the same issue running 20micron staccato on press and need to match a GRACoL proof which is 175LPI.

                    Also running stochastic and using the G7 method, when we achieve our gray balance our images are WAY off and visa versa. Can a DeviceLink profile fix this issue and do you apply the DeviceLink at the RIP? Which software are you using to create your DeviceLink profiles?




                    • #11
                      Re: Color Management with Staccato documents?

                      Hi Jerry

                      Yes I have used Device Links to compensate for the difference between the 175 proof and FM press.
                      Like you have noticed curves alone wont get you there, not completely.

                      I use Alwan Colors Link profiler and have also used Art Link O Later by Left Dakota.
                      Both are good apps for making quality DeviceLinks.

                      Depending on your rip you could apply them there, but it can be semi dangerous !

                      There are a few apps that do this pre rip, Alwan and GMG offer them, they are a little expensive
                      but do the job very well.Possibly be able to be intergrated into your workflow so its done on the fly.

                      We were using DVLs on the fly as we plate but a recent upgrade to our rip is not giving us the same
                      results we were once getting. So yes it does work but you need to have all the right pieces in place.

                      Using DVLs on the fly is sort of the Color Management Holy Grail......its the way to go !

                      Hope this helps

                      John R


                      • #12
                        Re: Color Management with Staccato documents?

                        Hi, John,when you Device Link the 175lpi and fm . In the alwan or GMG, their color seperation setting is the sam? I mean the is it keep black both? is it the sam TAC, the max black, or the UCR ? Our vendor suggestion we use the same seperation in gmg, but the fm print is darker than the 175LPI ,especially in the shadow.

                        Anyone is appeciated when giving any suggestion!


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