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Difference Between Photography vs Proofing Rips

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  • Difference Between Photography vs Proofing Rips

    Hi All,
    Lately, we kept revisiting the same color inconsistency issue in our workflow. To start, we work mainly with RGB workflow, we print/proof to an Epson Pro running Colorburst RIP (popular choice among photographers using RGB workflow). There are times we do work with CMYK images and this is where we run into color problems.

    No matter how hard I tried, proofing with printer's CMYK profile vs no color managed CMYK vs actual printer's proof vs final printed cover, shows me noticeable difference in color shift... this leads me to conclude our RIP is at fault. Is the answer that simple, would running a proofing-oriented RIP, like GMG, solve our problem? Could the printer's profile be at fault as well...e.g. profile got modified in another rip prior us receiving it?

    What other rips out there is commonly run by oversea printers? It's really difficult to get any info out of our CSRs... they are guarding these info as if it's gold.

    Appreciate any suggestions. Thank you.

  • #2
    Re: Difference Between Photography vs Proofing Rips

    GMG all the way.

    You could use it as a RGB proofing rip and of course as CMYK rip using device link profiles. Why is it so good? Because of device link MX4 profiles. It doesn't convert to LAB as ICC based rips do (eg. ColorBurst). CMYK to LAB to CMYK converts black channel also. With Device Link based rips black is not touched. Version 4.5.2 released in March has new interface, much easier now with Adobe Print Engine build in. Let me repeat this again: Same engine used in Adobe CS3 apps. Who doesn't use Adobe apps today? Adobe has monopoly. Did you heard of Adobe TV?

    I have 3 printers (not the same model but the same series - Epson x800) that match each other using the same Color Profile (MX4). Can you do this with other rips? Use the same profile (MX4), different linearization (MX3) and have a match?

    Talk to your dealer, ask for a demo dongle - you will be surprised. It cost you nothing. Need more info - Pm me. I am end user, not a dealer and I don't sell anything.

    Have fun.

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    • #3
      Re: Difference Between Photography vs Proofing Rips

      It's nice to have someone else confirm the same thing.... I'm not crazy after all. We are aware of Colorburst's preference of RGB images over CMYK and how it does convert CMYK > RGB > CMYK again. The challenge is convincing some higher ups to either install proofing RIP like GMG or stop this RGB workflow Photo Dept is running. Something has to compromise here if they really expect to see any consistency.

      Thanks for the reply Ryan.

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      • #4
        Re: Difference Between Photography vs Proofing Rips

        >With Device Link based rips black is not touched.

        Not entirely true in every case, and not with GMG. Black is certainly transformed with GMG MX4s (take a look at your "Key" fulcrums or type in a pure black value into a selective color correction to see the corresponding color values which will undoubtably contain CMY values). But this shouldn't be viewed as a negative thing. For one, depending on the inks, black ink by itself can have color constancy issues (As Ultrachrome inks do). Adding CMY to the build reduces this significantly. I believe CGS /Oris does have the ability to maintain black only blacks, but again, I don't see this as an advantage, but rather perhaps the opposite.

        GMG user here as well, and I certainly recommend it. I have seen good results with the Colorburst Rip as well though. Before purchasing a new Rip, I'd take another look at your workflow and maybe give a better description here of the steps your taking, paper type, measuring instrument, profiling package, ect. Someone might be able to get you going with the stuff you already own.

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        • #5
          Re: Difference Between Photography vs Proofing Rips

          Hi Michael,
          We use Epson Prof Proofing semi-paper roll, everyone for the most part just print to Colorburst RIP leaving color management to RIP to handle. We have in the past used Eye-One to calibrate the old Epson we just replaced. I don' think that has been done yet with the new printer. The challenge is how to get better color consistency from CMYK images that we have to proof using printer's ICC profiles.

          Colorburst does a pretty good job, but as far as I can tell with my eyes, it's only true with RGB images. As soon as you tried sending any CMYK images using a specific press/proof profile, it outputs with noticeable color shift.

          Edited by: HappyFriday on Apr 11, 2008 11:05 AM

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          • #6
            Re: Difference Between Photography vs Proofing Rips

            A few basics...What series and version of Colorburst Rip are you using? Are the linearization and profiles recent? Has it been profiled as a CMYK printer or RGB?

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            • #7
              Re: Difference Between Photography vs Proofing Rips

              We are running X-Proof's current version and the new Epson is not linearized... fresh out of the box.

              I found an old email response from CB's tech support... he's suggestion back then was to use EPS file format for CMYK instead, so CB's RIP won't do any color conversion of the images.

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              • #8
                Re: Difference Between Photography vs Proofing Rips

                >We are running X-Proof's current version and the new Epson is not linearized... fresh out of the box.

                So you haven't linearized or profiled? To give the Rip a fair chance, I'd recommend that.

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