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  • #16
    Originally posted by Correct Color View Post

    Well, I'm a consultant and it doesn't much suit my interests. I think Idealliance would be pretty damned happy in fact if I'd just shut up and go away.

    But then my approach to consultancy has always been to provide real value and actually solve problems.



    Mike
    I am sure you try to solve real problems. I should not imply all consultants. Actually I did not say all consultants.

    But I would also say that if there was a real and deep interest to solve problems, there would be an effort to put oneself out of business by solving the problems at fundamental levels. That is the way I see it. If I could get some of the issues solved that I am interested in, I would not have to think about them again.

    It seems Idealliance is dedicated to training vast numbers of consultants which I think shows that it provides a problematic approach for the industry.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Erik Nikkanen View Post

      I am sure you try to solve real problems. I should not imply all consultants. Actually I did not say all consultants.

      But I would also say that if there was a real and deep interest to solve problems, there would be an effort to put oneself out of business by solving the problems at fundamental levels. That is the way I see it. If I could get some of the issues solved that I am interested in, I would not have to think about them again.

      It seems Idealliance is dedicated to training vast numbers of consultants which I think shows that it provides a problematic approach for the industry.
      Speak some fundamental problems that are never discussed?

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      • #18
        Originally posted by MICHEL_GALEGO View Post

        Speak some fundamental problems that are never discussed?
        Sorry, but I have been doing that for years on this forum. They have been discussed. I won't go over them again today.

        Try to think for yourself and come up with your list of problems. If you can't think of any fundamental problems, then that is a problem. There are a lot of them. Anyhow, it is a good exercise to do even if at this time, you don't see how they can be corrected.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by MICHEL_GALEGO View Post

          Speak some fundamental problems that are never discussed?
          Here’s a fun thought starter for you. Do you use a color bar? Does it have 3/C grey patches? If the 3/C patch in the color bar deviates by 2 deltaE, does an equivalent neutral patch in the live image area deviate by the same deltaE? Or is it greater or less? If you have an answer, explain how you came up with it.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by gordo View Post

            Here’s a fun thought starter for you. Do you use a color bar? Does it have 3/C grey patches? If the 3/C patch in the color bar deviates by 2 deltaE, does an equivalent neutral patch in the live image area deviate by the same deltaE? Or is it greater or less? If you have an answer, explain how you came up with it.
            You presume too much! Having those patches in your color bar does not necessarily equate to someone constantly monitoring the deltaE for variance. And, even if they did, what job is someone going to be printing where they happen to 'notice' an equivalent patch in the middle of the sheet that they can scan for reference? Lol.

            I see where you're going with this though, and I will say that the color bar patches will not always match the equivalent one(s) in the image area of the sheet. Truth be told, they may never match exactly. And not only that, the patch in the image area's deltaE may either measure greater OR less than the color bar patches, depending on some of the other variables (oscillation, ink charging, etc. etc.) that are all part of the process...

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            • #21
              Originally posted by alibryan View Post
              You presume too much! Having those patches in your color bar does not necessarily equate to someone constantly monitoring the deltaE for variance. And, even if they did, what job is someone going to be printing where they happen to 'notice' an equivalent patch in the middle of the sheet that they can scan for reference? Lol.

              I see where you're going with this though, and I will say that the color bar patches will not always match the equivalent one(s) in the image area of the sheet. Truth be told, they may never match exactly. And not only that, the patch in the image area's deltaE may either measure greater OR less than the color bar patches, depending on some of the other variables (oscillation, ink charging, etc. etc.) that are all part of the process...
              How quick you are to answer MICHEL_GALEGO.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by gordo View Post

                How quick you are to answer MICHEL_GALEGO.
                *wiping mud from my eye*

                In my haste to join in your fun, I didn't stop to think that this might actually be a user specific question. I now realize that it was and apologize for spoiling the answer.
                Last edited by alibryan; 11-04-2017, 02:16 PM.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by alibryan View Post

                  *wiping mud from my eye*

                  In my haste to join in your fun, I didn't stop to think that this might actually be a user specific question. I now realize that it was and apologize for spoiling the answer.
                  I have no words...but I do have a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YzToRK9MUU

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                  • #24
                    i feel this is the right thread for this, i apologize if its not.

                    i am in flexo and i am looking for answers as they relate to flexo. i am used to only measuring SID and TVI. this typically works well for most images. ive only seen problems in trying to print grays. ive been seeing that Lab should also be measured and controlled for CMYK but have yet to make that a normal part of the process.

                    im very familiar with FIRST and have only looked a little into G7, ISO 12647 and GMI. prior to searching for G7 topics on this forum i was feeling like G7 should be something we need to prepare for as i figured it would give a good base that could be applied for GMI or other customer specified requirements. now i dont know if that is right or if it is possible to do so.

                    i see that G7 is not liked very much on these boards but i dont see what is proposed as an alternative.

                    if you are opening a new flexo shop and have the money to hire the right people and buy the right equipment is there a standard that would be implemented in order to be able to market yourself to most customers? what elements should be measured on a job to make sure the process is under control and that colors will match proofs?

                    these are the things i think should be measured and would love if you guys could add or let me know if any of these are overkill
                    Substrate Lab
                    CMYK and Spot Solid Density and Lab
                    CMYK and Screened Spot midtone TVI
                    RGB overprints Lab
                    Grayscale patches?

                    if you have a characterization for your press and you have a signed contract proof based on this characterization would the above not be enough for proper color management? is there one standard that requires all the above and anything that i am missing? we currently dont have patches in our jobs to measure RGB or grayscale but i am thinking we should add them.

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