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  • Confused about Pantone Goe Confusion

    Is the following correct? The old Pantone system used a named color library to identify a color. When a spot color was converterd to CMYK a look up table supplied by Pantone provided the CMYK recipes. CIEL*a*b* values for the individual colors was supplied by Pantone for use by RIPs when doing output to computer displays and inkjet proofers but not for separations to film or plate.
    If that is true for the old - is it also true for the new Pantone Goe system? Why did Pantone choose to provide RGB (sRGB) values in their swatch book rather than CIEL*a*b values?
    I'm not asking about getting the best CMYK representation of the color - just what the process is that Pantone has defined.

    thx, gordo

  • #2
    Re: Confused about Pantone Goe Confusion

    Gordo:
    According to my conversations with Pantone guys at Expo, the new product is only rolled out for designer types so far, thus the sRGB. They haven't even started to deal with the cmyk conversions, and maybe that's why the CIELABs aren't there yet. Plus, the software that they are providing to convert the Old PMS colors to the closest GOE PMS color is RGB based. That's what I heard, maybe not what was transmitted.
    Regards,
    John Lind
    Cranberry Township, PA
    724-776-4718

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    • #3
      Re: Confused about Pantone Goe Confusion

      http://ondemandjournal.com/whitepapers/Pantone_Goe.pdf

      Maybe this will help, maybe not.

      Also, from http://www.pantone.com/pages/pantone...pg=20494&ca=10

      "Partners
      The PANTONE Goe System will be supported by industry leaders for seamless integration into the design and production workflow. Partner announcements will be forthcoming."

      So it looks like it's up to application vendors to handle the conversion to CMYK, etc. Hope these applications get updated before we start getting jobs to separate to CMYK. Also, if we have to use a specific paper/ink profile to get the CMYK values to best reproduce the PANTONE color, the application vendors will have to really think hard how they will implement this. Since we know that the program that made the profile is really important and that different profiles made by different programs give different CMYK values from the same RGB values (e.g. the GRACoL2006_Coated1_GCR_bas.icc profile from colormanagement.org gives me the best conversions I've seen so far that get a closer reproduction of out-of-gamut RGB and Lab colors when converted to CMYK), we see that the application vendors will need to implement the best color profiles out-of-the-box to get the best color (and will have to use the same profiles, hopefully standard profiles that have been optimized for best out-of-gamut conversion results, to get the same color from every application), then we see this is not something that is going to be easy IMO. Of course, they could just decide to do something that could keep us confused and getting different results from different applications, or leave the onus on us to do it and not give us anything useful as a path to get there. It's becoming where the GRACoL2006_Coated1 profile (highest gamut ISO 12647-2-compliant U.S. profile) needs to be default in Photoshop for U.S., and ISOcoatedv2 (highest gamut ISO 12647-2-compliant Europe profile) needs to be default in Photoshop for Europe (unless of course they can, if they choose, just make one universal printing condition for printing on #1 paper). Then those same coated values could be printed on other paper types (just like the next-to-newest PANTONE CMYK numbers from PANTONE solid coated and solid uncoated libraries are the same CMYK values when output as process).

      Bottom line IMO: We need the best out-of-gamut tested profile (to get the best reproduction of out-of-gamut colors when converted to CMYK) for the largest gamut (printing on #1 paper) to be made default in the applications we use, and those obtained CMYK values from the RGB or Lab to CMYK conversion could be used on uncoated also, and get about the same if not the same color when printing the coated CMYK values on uncoated that would be obtained if converting the RGB or Lab to the uncoated profile and printing on uncoated (since GRACoL2006_Coated1v2 and ISOuncoated follow about the same NPDCs in the lower end and paper takes care of the lessening of saturation for the upper end).

      Sorry for the added confusion, but that's what's needed, and from my time in this industry, I don't see it happening soon. Hope I'm wrong.

      Don

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      • #4
        Re: Confused about Pantone Goe Confusion

        There will be an official European introduction of Pantone Goe in the Print Media Academy in Heidelberg next Monday.
        Jan-Peter Homann (member Printing Across Borders) will give a presentation on the Goe system and explain the different workflows.
        I will be there and hope to get the answers on your questions.
        There is even a special web site devoted to the Goe system. However only in German.
        regards, Henk

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        • #5
          Re: Confused about Pantone Goe Confusion

          Some extra info. The web site created by the European Pantone organization is www.goe-future.com
          The info covers the introduction in the German language.

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          • #6
            Re: Confused about Pantone Goe Confusion

            I really don't understand why a Pantone guide doesn't list L*a*b* numbers. Surely they keep their records in L*a*b*. Why even bother with RGB or CMYK? As was said above, that's up to the vendors and repro to find those values.

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