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G7__Gracol 7_gmg_oris_efi

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  • G7__Gracol 7_gmg_oris_efi

    We're moving into the G7 calibration method; we're also getting another printer. Epson 9800 or 9880.
    We're wondering if the proofer software (EFI, Oris, gmg) makes any difference on hitting the Gracol 7 specs.. We need to be within a 1.5 delta E of our client.
    If it will help; we run Trueflow 3.12 going up to 4 within a week. We're running an epson 10600 with Chroma Pro/Chorma net software.
    All we do is drap and drop tiffs over to the ChromaPro to proof our layouts. Backed up dyluxes and contact prints.
    We checked on the differences between those and EFI seems to be the more user friendly.
    But I don't understand what all the others could do for us, especially with the new g7 stuff.
    I'm no expert, so I would appreciate some opinions.


    PS. Any opinions on G7 would be welcome also.
    Is it a good idea getting certified to tweak the curves or is just learning to calibrate good enough?
    I'm confused, do you need the ideAlliance curve software to calibrate or just make new curves, if you're certified.
    Has anyone gotten their ink companies to come in and get you G7 compliant for free?
    Any other thoughts would be great.

  • #2
    Re: G7__Gracol 7_gmg_oris_efi

    >We're wondering if the proofer software (EFI, Oris, gmg) makes any difference on hitting the Gracol 7 specs.. We need to be within a 1.5 delta E of our client.

    Any of those Rips should allow you to hit Gracol 7 specs within that tolerance with an Epson 98x0, depending on paper. Really have to look the overall functionality , user freindliness, and how they fit your workflow to determine the best solution.

    >PS. Any opinions on G7 would be welcome also.Is it a good idea getting certified to tweak the curves or is just learning to calibrate good enough?

    You could certainly learn to do it yourself. Getting certified would help if you wanted to train others, certify others as G7 Master printers or do consulting.

    >I'm confused, do you need the ideAlliance curve software to calibrate or just make new curves, if you're certified.

    You can implement G7 without the Idealink Curve software and without being certified. Just read the How-To guide. The Curve software is convenient as it gives you more options and is obviously quicker than hand plotting.


    • #3
      Re: G7__Gracol 7_gmg_oris_efi


      EFI-> Gracol 7 specs very achievable

      I am running EFI 3.0 to Epson 9800's

      Oce satin photo paper 10 mil similar specs to epson's premium semimatte,

      On a windows xp box

      Using X-Rite Eye-One IO, IT874, compared back to the Gracol's spec file

      without running EFI Lab tweak- my delta was close to 1.5,

      with tweak applied

      Average delta: 0.81

      Standard deviation (dE): 0.50

      # delta94 Average/Standard deviation : 0.53/0.32

      # delta1 Average/Standard deviation : 0.28/0.24

      # delta2 Average/Standard deviation : 0.53/0.47

      # delta3 Average/Standard deviation : 0.37/0.36

      Max delta 4.92

      You should be able to get a 30 day demo dongle from EFI,

      Xpedx is my vendor



      • #4
        Re: G7__Gracol 7_gmg_oris_efi

        We have Oris on our 10600 with the Dupont Chroma Pro..... Its been aimed at the G7 2006 data set but its not perfect.
        The Delta e is below 2 but not visually matching.....
        The High UV of the ChromaPro is possibly mucking things up, will be switching to something With lower UV Brighteners.
        You shouldnt need to mess with curves with the Oris to hit G7, you can load the dataset into it and do your color match.

        If you plan on doing anything G7 in the press room then getting certified would be helpful.
        I would get a good spectro and check your ink set yourself, most ink manufacturers should have ISO compliant inks.
        I have both Sun and Toyo and not having any issues with hitting Gracol7
        Curve tool is nice, wouldnt do it without it !
        It would take too long to plot out the NPDC by hand and if you have a press waiting....$$$
        Also higher margin for error doing it by hand.


        • #5
          Re: G7__Gracol 7_gmg_oris_efi

          I am running GMG.

          My dE average is 0.29 and dE Max 3.47 (reds). So far my results are better than Oris and EFI mentioned before.

          Isis in UV was used for measurements. Epson 9800 printer. MidStates ProofLine White Satin 230 paper matching GRACoL2006 data.


          • #6
            Re: G7__Gracol 7_gmg_oris_efi

            What software are you using to obtain the deltaE's? Just wondering how if I can measure that with Profilemaker and my Eye One (manual). Using Measure Tool- Comparing can I load the profile I'm using under reference and the target I've printed off my Z2100 and use DeltaE 94 to get the report, is this the right way?

            Any help greatly appreciated,


            • #7
              Re: G7__Gracol 7_gmg_oris_efi

              Thanks for the thoughts, they've helped.
              What are some thoughts on the over all look. what is noticable to the naked eye?
              If EFI's adv is .81 and GMG is .29; is that a noticable difference?
              We'll be checking on it ourselves but how do they compare in price?

              thanks for the help.



              • #8
                Re: G7__Gracol 7_gmg_oris_efi

                Hi all,

                For comparison:

                HPZ2100 printer, self-calibrated only, EFI Designer Edition for HP rip (inexpensive), using HP Semigloss Pro Contract proofing paper.

                # delta94 Average/Standard deviation : 1.70/0.65
                # delta1 Average/Standard deviation : 0.94/0.64
                # delta2 Average/Standard deviation : 1.83/1.28
                # delta3 Average/Standard deviation : 1.20/0.78

                In Profilemaker Compare tool:
                DeltaE 94
                Ave: Total 1.70
                Best 90% 1.56
                Worst 10% 2.97

                Sigma: Total 0.65
                Best 90% 0.51
                Worst 10% 0.41

                Maximum: Total 4.97
                Best 90% 2.53

                If I did this right, I loaded my cmyk profile (Gracol2006_Coated1v2 modified in Profilemaker for Max GCR) into Compare tool as Reference and the chart I had printed out as Sample. I see this isn't as good as the others but just for comparison, this is the low-priced EFI Designer Edition for HP rip, HPZ2100 printer, no separate linearization applied, only self-calibrated with the on-board spectro. Will some of you please comment and let me know if this is acceptable numbers or no?


                Edited by: Prepper on Oct 29, 2007 10:38 AM


                • #9
                  Re: G7__Gracol 7_gmg_oris_efi

                  If you are considering using the G7 calibration method and the GRACol7 specs, do yourself a favor and contact Terry Wyse immediately at, or by phone at 704.843.0858, you'll be glad you did. Tell him Todd sent you!


                  • #10
                    Re: G7__Gracol 7_gmg_oris_efi

                    Almost same price. Visually I am not sure as I would have to see both next to each other. I can tell you one thing - GMG has selective color correction and EFI does not. That means that if you don't like something visually in gmg you can change it and in EFI you cannot. This was the reason why I discarded EFI.


                    • #11
                      Re: G7__Gracol 7_gmg_oris_efi

                      I was told you could customize colors with some training.

                      Does anyone have any creative ideas on how to pay for the g7/gracol setup?
                      We've heard that ink companies will set you up, for a contract. I don't know if they would up the price or
                      just take less of a profit.
                      One company is offering to put it all on a lease.
                      I'm not sure what the best write off for the company would be yet.
                      wanted to see what deals others have gotten.



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