Best way to print black and white photography

[sjp]

Looking for recommendations on the best way to print black and white photography on a 6 color press. There are portions of the brochure that will be printed in 4cp. Is it best to print the photographs as duotones or as 4cp? Any suggestions or recommendations would be helpful. Thank you.

 

[Bret Hesler]

With a 6 color press, you have options. You can print in 4/c as a quadtone with a leading black, and a neutral build of CMY as support. You can also "flavor" the CMY build to get a sepia look or a cool look. Or you could do a duotone with a full range black and a bump black hitting the shadows, or you could do a tritone with a gray and two blacks.

Bret

 

[Colorblind]

One print shop I worked at used black and Pantone Warm Gray 2 duotone. The result was very nice.

 

[mattbeals]

I'm trying to go through my email archives to find the link for it. But there's a guy on the Apple ColorSync list that sells his software for printing black and white photos on an Epson. It is my understanding that the software creates and ICC profile from the measurement data. I would think that it could be adapted for offset purposes. It appears to be a bit of a side project for him if I recall correctly. When I find it I'll post the info.

 

[gordo]

Looking for recommendations on the best way to print black and white photography on a 6 color press. There are portions of the brochure that will be printed in 4cp. Is it best to print the photographs as duotones or as 4cp? Any suggestions or recommendations would be helpful. Thank you.

Depending on the aesthetic needs of the brochure - it would be cheapest, and simplest, to run the black and whites as 4/C since there are no washups, or dealing with spot color inks. Just remember to use heavy GCR in your separations to minimize grey balance shifting on press.

IMHO, if you were to do a duotone, you might find that doing it using two black printers is simplest to implement. All of my experience with duo and tritones using black with greys were for photo art books and always involved well documented press tests to build the correct combination of curves for the different printers to get the effect that the client wanted. If you're just doing a basic brochure that happens to have some black and white images I would recommend doing them as 4/C.

best, gordon p

 

[sjp]

Thank you Gordo. The art director I'm working with can't seem to find the GCR in photoshop. Can you please help with that as well?

 

[gordo]

Thank you Gordo. The art director I'm working with can't seem to find the GCR in photoshop. Can you please help with that as well?

Photoshop--->Menu--->Edit--->Color Settings--->Working Spaces--->CMYK--->Custom CMYK--->Separation Type--->GCR - Black Generation "Heavy" Black Limit "95%" Total Ink Limit "320%" UCA Amount "20%"

If you have time, it's a good idea to run a test on press - even if it's just an image that's run on an off cut area of another 4/C job.

best, gordon p

My print blog here: Quality In Print
Current topic: Secret Shopper

 

[REYES1377]

I worked in a shop years ago that printed Ansel Adams posters. We mastered this by using a very dense black and 424 grey @ 300 line screen. If your press slurs doing it 4 color isn't the way to go!

 

[hansman]

Be sure to start with a true Grayscale image that is balanced before applying the color settings.
I have used a Scitex recipe with great results.
You could start with a grayscale then copy the same image in to the C - M - Y.
Then adjust your strength to achieve a neutral gray balance.
Depending on the photo you may need to adjust accordingly but this insures the 3 colors are based on a neutral c-m-y.

 

[gordo]

Be sure to start with a true Grayscale image that is balanced before applying the color settings.
[SNIP]You could start with a grayscale then copy the same image in to the C - M - Y.
Then adjust your strength to achieve a neutral gray balance.
Depending on the photo you may need to adjust accordingly but this insures the 3 colors are based on a neutral c-m-y.

I don't understand why you would make it so complicated.
Why not just take a greyscale image (or one converted to greyscale from color) and just convert it to CMYK in PShop letting the profile take care of maintaining neutral grey balance?

For example, here is a greyscale image:

here is the greyscale image converted directly to cmyk (then to RGB since my image host doesn't accept cmyk images)

best, gordon p

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

you mean like the www converts all to RGB? I find it easiest to leave the grey as grey in PS and colour it with a swatch of 20 15 15 100 or 30 20 20 100 in the layout program. If you loose shadows go down with the black but keep it above 95. The curves 20% GCR heavy as shown in the thread are very sensitive give cast in lighter tints.
It isn't perfect, but its efficient. The cast can be deliberately added by choosing different CMY values.

 

[hansman]

I don't understand why you would make it so complicated.
Why not just take a greyscale image (or one converted to greyscale from color) and just convert it to CMYK in PShop letting the profile take care of maintaining neutral grey balance?

For example, here is a greyscale image:

here is the greyscale image converted directly to cmyk (then to RGB since my image host doesn't accept cmyk images)

best, gordon p

Nice RGB Greyscale!!!
jk
I guess I am from the old school....I need to work with each sep 1 at a time making adjustments along the way.
When I started in this trade we didn't even have profiles to convert to!
We all had our own grey balance mixes.

Cheers

 

[TerryWyse]

Be sure to start with a true Grayscale image that is balanced before applying the color settings.
I have used a Scitex recipe with great results.
You could start with a grayscale then copy the same image in to the C - M - Y.
Then adjust your strength to achieve a neutral gray balance.
Depending on the photo you may need to adjust accordingly but this insures the 3 colors are based on a neutral c-m-y.

I'm with Gordo....too complex and uneccessary...no need to use Grayscale mode at all really.

If the image is RGB, simply convert to B&W and be done with it....the easy way is to simply use the "Desaturate" Image Adjustment....more complex ways involve using either the Channel Mixer (set to Monochrome) and/or the Black & White option in Photoshop.

Once you get a neutral RGB image, simply convert to the CMYK profile of your choice and proper gray balance will be maintained. Better yet, use a custom CMYK profile set for maximum GCR and a full range (or nearly so) black channel. UCA is up to you....I'd say as long as you've got 30-40% CMY under a 95-100% K in the shadows, you'll have good dense shadows.

Regards,
Terry Wyse

 

[rich apollo]

The problem with any of the CMYK methods suggested is that you end up with very little black in the highlight end of the image, where you need it the most. You get 3-color gray throughout the most sensitive tonal range of the image. The point of having 4-color grayscale images is to get that extra punch in the midtone to shadow range.

Here's a Photoshop Action I built to combat that problem. Start with an RGB image.

Right now it desaturates an RGB image to start. Try using the Channel Mixer to create the initial monochrome image, instead.

Otherwise, two black inks works great. Just make sure that the screen angles are compatible.

 

[leokor]

Hi, everyone.

I'm new here, so don't mind me if I don't make sense. I'm still learning.

Would something like this work: (1) black, with a curve sagging in midtones and rising sharp in shadows; (2) (nearly) neutral gray spot color, with a sharp S-curve in midtones, more or less flat in shadows? With something like 100% black and 70% gray max, would it be dense enough? If so, why mix CMY (three colors) when only one (spot gray) would do? Does it make sense to use a 100/70 mix like this for "rich black" text?

More questions. Is it worth adding just a little bit of silver metallic, at the edge of perception (say, with a little bump between highlight and midtones, and going to zero in both directions), just to add some interest to the image? Is it worth adding a white ink, to provide two whites, in addition to the white of paper?

Leo

 

[gordo]

To Leo,

The OP was about a 4/C job that included B&W images. Running a spot color (spot grey) would require an extra press unit, or a second press run and at the very least a press washup all of which adds costs which might not add any value to the needs of this job. Adding metallic silver would add another press unit and washup. Also,screening a metallic will usually cause it to lose its metallic effect and appear as grey instead while causing ink trapping problems. White ink on an offset press looks as white as vaseline. It would not add anything to the presswork except cost and complications.

best, gordon p

My print blog here: Quality In Print
Current topic: Quality printing versus production efficiency

 

[leokor]

Thanks, Gordon.

But if you don't use anything but black and spot gray, would that be better than CMY gray? And can it be used for text?

Leo

P.S. I figured that metallic would lose much or most of its lustre. But if you don't really want it to shine like the sun, would it make an "edge-of-perception" difference in the appearance of the image?

P.P.S. I don't know much about white inks. For the sake of curiosity, what is the difference between ANPA 70-0 AdPro and 70-1, 70-2, ..., 70-8?

 

[gordo]

Thanks, Gordon.
But if you don't use anything but black and spot gray, would that be better than CMY gray? And can it be used for text?
Leo
P.S. I figured that metallic would lose much or most of its lustre. But if you don't really want it to shine like the sun, would it make an "edge-of-perception" difference in the appearance of the image?

P.P.S. I don't know much about white inks. For the sake of curiosity, what is the difference between ANPA 70-0 AdPro and 70-1, 70-2, ..., 70-8?

A duotone made up of Spot Grey and black would be more stable and possibly smoother looking on press. However, it is more complex to set up. Typically duotones like that are used for limited edition art posters, and speciality books. It can be used for text.
As always, the method of production is based on the needs of the project and the customer's requirements. If the project is a 4/C rack brochure containing a few B&W images then a 4/C grey is likely best. If it's a fine art book with a mix of 4/C and B&W images then 4/C plus spot grey may be more appropriate.
IMHO, the use of metallic ink as you propose would make no difference in the appearance of the image.
I'm not familiar with "ANPA 70-0 AdPro" so no comment.

best, gordon p

 

[Alois Senefelder]

re - Repro for B/W Halftones

re - Repro for B/W Halftones

Hello Gentlemen,

I hope you will find it of interest and value --- the following PDFs using

Litho-Krome's "Black Reproduction"


Regards, Alois

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

If using duotone with grey and black you will have to print black last, or the grey will be screen away the black. Swaping ink order also is very expensive.