EFI Colorproof XF spot color overprints...I'm not happy!

schenkadere

Well-known member
Does anyone else have this problem? I can't find a happy setting for the global overprint and gamma in the color editor. It's especially bad when "black" is involved.

I love the RIP for 4C and the internal library spot matches are great. My only complaint is spot overprints.

I'm using Colorproof XF v. 3.18...an Epson 9900 with photo black and Chromaticity's Validation 190 media. I've been told this handling has not been changed in the newer v. 4.

I'm curious if the other solutions such as Oris have better results.

Thanks.
 
Last edited:
Does anyone else have this problem? I can't find a happy setting for the global overprint and gamma in the color editor. It's especially bad when "black" is involved.

I love the RIP for 4C and the internal library spot matches are great. My only complaint is spot overprints.

I'm using Colorproof XF v. 3.18...an Epson 9900 with photo black and Chromaticity's Validation 190 media. I've been told this handling has not been changed in the newer v. 4.

I'm curious if the other solutions such as Oris have better results.

Thanks.

I had the same issue, E, change the overprint setting in color editor to 100% and Gamma to a value of 1
 
I had the same issue, E, change the overprint setting in color editor to 100% and Gamma to a value of 1

I tried that...still pretty sucky...too dark. I'm experimenting at the moment. I've gone from one extreme to the next and can't find a really solid setting...but I am burning through paper, LOL.
 
Does anyone else have this problem? I can't find a happy setting for the global overprint and gamma in the color editor. It's especially bad when "black" is involved.

I love the RIP for 4C and the internal library spot matches are great. My only complaint is spot overprints.

I'm using Colorproof XF v. 3.18...an Epson 9900 with photo black and Chromaticity's Validation 190 media. I've been told this handling has not been changed in the newer v. 4.

I'm curious if the other solutions such as Oris have better results.

Thanks.


All customers who use our Chromaticity Validation Media are eligible for tech support (on EFI RIPs) directly from Chromaticity. If you would like, you can call our tech line and ask one of our guys to help you. We will also escalate the issue with EFI if needed.

616-988-6118

Thanks,
Ian
VP Marketing
FineEye/Chromaticity
 
All customers who use our Chromaticity Validation Media are eligible for tech support (on EFI RIPs) directly from Chromaticity. If you would like, you can call our tech line and ask one of our guys to help you. We will also escalate the issue with EFI if needed.

616-988-6118

Thanks,
Ian
VP Marketing
FineEye/Chromaticity

I didn't know that...thank you. I have spoken to a number of people there. They are very nice and helpful, but unfortunately the answer always seems to be trial and error. Well, I've been testing this on quite a few files and I've also tried the redefinition of Black in the spot color editor. That seemed like the answer, but it changes the color overall and there's no way to optimize a profile with the inclusion of the spot color table.

I would imagine this has had to have been a complaint before and am curious how others have handles it.
 
Not using EFI (GMG), but I've had my share of frustration with dealing with spot overprints, particularly when screening spots over process, or other spots. Its a tricky endeavor because, as the EFI documentation states, "there is no standardized measuring method and no charts for depicting satisfactorily all the possible combinations of spot colors and process colors". For utmost accuracy, one would have to go the route of press trials and n-color profiling...usually not realistic. That said, we get overall good result by adjusting the gradation (gamma) of the spot colors. GMG also has the ability to target Lab values for screened areas, which is nice for a spot color that changes chroma and/or hue as it is screened...not sure if EFI has this ability. Still, this is quite tricky to do early on in the process without press samples.
 
Not using EFI (GMG), but I've had my share of frustration with dealing with spot overprints, particularly when screening spots over process, or other spots. Its a tricky endeavor because, as the EFI documentation states, "there is no standardized measuring method and no charts for depicting satisfactorily all the possible combinations of spot colors and process colors". For utmost accuracy, one would have to go the route of press trials and n-color profiling...usually not realistic. That said, we get overall good result by adjusting the gradation (gamma) of the spot colors. GMG also has the ability to target Lab values for screened areas, which is nice for a spot color that changes chroma and/or hue as it is screened...not sure if EFI has this ability. Still, this is quite tricky to do early on in the process without press samples.

I don't have the screening option...I don't really see the point to it. It's not as if you can make a dot to dot comparison while on press...but maybe there is an advantage I'm not aware of.

I find that what works for one file may not work for the next, and that is frustrating. The biggest problem I'm having is when there is CMYK over a spot...it's too dark and the adjustments just don't do it.
 
I don't have the screening option...I don't really see the point to it. It's not as if you can make a dot to dot comparison while on press...but maybe there is an advantage I'm not aware of.[/QUOTE


I agree with you, and I wasn't referring to dot proofing. Merely that GMG has the ability to target the CIELab values of a spot color at 50%, or any other tone, so if you had press data of a screened spot color (or say, a Pantone tint book), you could target the entire tone scale, rather than just the 100% solids. Sorry for the confusing terminology.

I find that what works for one file may not work for the next, and that is frustrating. The biggest problem I'm having is when there is CMYK over a spot...it's too dark and the adjustments just don't do it.

This is difficult yes. Again, since there usually no up front data on how the spots and process color overprint (what Lab value you get when spots and process mix), the accuracy suffers and you rely on manual adjustment that may or may not get you there. For sure you would need actual press data, either visual for tweaking, or ideally characterization data from a n-color profiled press that would take out the guess work. This is almost always impractical or coming way late in the game. Still, for critical packaging clients, we've done press proofs and dialed in the inkjet proofs toward them.
 
I don't have the screening option...I don't really see the point to it. It's not as if you can make a dot to dot comparison while on press...but maybe there is an advantage I'm not aware of.[/QUOTE


I agree with you, and I wasn't referring to dot proofing. Merely that GMG has the ability to target the CIELab values of a spot color at 50%, or any other tone, so if you had press data of a screened spot color (or say, a Pantone tint book), you could target the entire tone scale, rather than just the 100% solids. Sorry for the confusing terminology.



This is difficult yes. Again, since there usually no up front data on how the spots and process color overprint (what Lab value you get when spots and process mix), the accuracy suffers and you rely on manual adjustment that may or may not get you there. For sure you would need actual press data, either visual for tweaking, or ideally characterization data from a n-color profiled press that would take out the guess work. This is almost always impractical or coming way late in the game. Still, for critical packaging clients, we've done press proofs and dialed in the inkjet proofs toward them.

That sounds like a nice feature on the GMG.

It seems that it's really the CMYK data that is causing it to get too dark because black is also a combination of inks. I have the ability to define "Black" as a spot color and tell it to only use the K ink and then I can also apply a curve to it. That helps those areas, but other area's accuracy suffer.
 
I too use EFI Color proof XF 3.1 and have struggled with this. In talking with the guys at Chromaticity they tell me that version 4.0 handles spot color overprints much better. While I have not gotten my upgrade yet, I can't confirm or deny unfortunately.

One thing that they did tell me is that the way spot colors are handled in version 3 vs. 4 is a bit different in that they have input values into the LUT derived from a human visual match vs. the normal colormetric algorithm which doesn't always reproduce a clean visual match to some of the Pantone colors.

Sort of like Mike Eddington was talking about in GMG how you can input your own data from press runs, however in EFI the Pantone LUT is still locked down. But as you probably know you can change the priority in your workflow in which the rip will look for data from internal-lab-cmyk to say lab-cmyk-internal and then you can add a Pantone color as a "new" spot color even with the same name but with your own data. Then as long as you specify it as LAB or CMYK the rip will use that data before going to the internal table.
 
I too use EFI Color proof XF 3.1 and have struggled with this. In talking with the guys at Chromaticity they tell me that version 4.0 handles spot color overprints much better. While I have not gotten my upgrade yet, I can't confirm or deny unfortunately.

One thing that they did tell me is that the way spot colors are handled in version 3 vs. 4 is a bit different in that they have input values into the LUT derived from a human visual match vs. the normal colormetric algorithm which doesn't always reproduce a clean visual match to some of the Pantone colors.

Sort of like Mike Eddington was talking about in GMG how you can input your own data from press runs, however in EFI the Pantone LUT is still locked down. But as you probably know you can change the priority in your workflow in which the rip will look for data from internal-lab-cmyk to say lab-cmyk-internal and then you can add a Pantone color as a "new" spot color even with the same name but with your own data. Then as long as you specify it as LAB or CMYK the rip will use that data before going to the internal table.

I was told by Chromaticity that the overprint handling is exactly the same was not reworked. They did though tell me what you describe about the spot matching.

I have no problem with the spot colors themselves. With the Validation media and the Epson 9900 they are excellent matches. It's only the overprinting that is a struggle...again...especially when it comes to CMYK plus spot.

I haven't upgraded either. I can't really justify it at the moment. I spoke in detail with Chromaticity about the changes and I don't really see the point right now.
 
I received some prints from GMG using a pdf I supplied that has been a challenge for me with EFI. I have to say...although the test was done using their canned GRACOL, SWOP3 and SWOP5 profiles, the spot to CMYK overprint was far superior and visually accurate. I was quite pleased. I have so much time invested in EFI that I'm reluctant to make a jump to a new RIP, but I am certainly considering it. I'm going to upgrade to Colorproof XF 4.0 for the relatively small investment of $599 and see where that takes me. I'll post my results.
 
Originally Posted by schenkadere
EFI vs. GMG vs. CGS...is there a clear winner?
yes.

:)
__________________
Terence Wyse, WyseConsul
 
Originally Posted by schenkadere
EFI vs. GMG vs. CGS...is there a clear winner?
yes.

:)
__________________
Terence Wyse, WyseConsul

Oh, so I now assume you mean that GMG is the clear winner? Why can't anyone just say that? I was looking for educated opinions.
 
Oh, so I now assume you mean that GMG is the clear winner? Why can't anyone just say that? I was looking for educated opinions.

Winner for what? In what category? To do what?
Perhaps GMG may produce better overprints and produce better spot colors. This would make them better in that specific category. If that category then applies to the majority of your work, then yes, perhaps GMG is "better" for you. As I have siad, each of these RIPs does have a specialty and GMG tends to excel at spot colors and therefore in packaging as well.

Saying that GMG is just plain better is not an "educated opinion"; it is a biased statement.
When any consultant makes a statement like that, then the word "consultant" should be replaced with "Authorized GMG Reseller".....;-)
 
Winner for what? In what category? To do what?
Perhaps GMG may produce better overprints and produce better spot colors. This would make them better in that specific category. If that category then applies to the majority of your work, then yes, perhaps GMG is "better" for you. As I have siad, each of these RIPs does have a specialty and GMG tends to excel at spot colors and therefore in packaging as well.

Saying that GMG is just plain better is not an "educated opinion"; it is a biased statement.
When any consultant makes a statement like that, then the word "consultant" should be replaced with "Authorized GMG Reseller".....;-)

I see your point.

What do you see as the "specialities" of Oris and EFI?
 

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