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  • Jet Plate CTP

    I am considering the Jet Plate. I run between 800 and 1000 plates per month.
    What kind of speed can I expect out of it?
    How about consistensy ?
    It's pricethat has my attention.
    I am looking for any kind of feedback be it positive or negative.
    Thanks,

  • #2
    Re: Jet Plate CTP

    Hello John:

    If you are refering to Jetplate system CTP manafacturer then think it is a printer technology based in a special ink that emulsion on conventional plate. According with some customers using them (7600, 7800 ones) it could be very carefull to check the exac cost for plate considering all ink consumables and more importat the coverage. I know it works OK with EliteCraftmann Kodak plates that runs until 100,000 print acording manufacturer. But it is difficultose to confirm because users that bought this systems have low print running ususally. I had done some average calculatons about plate cost considering plate, ink, cleaning ink, and chemicals and I got about $11,00 USD mts at 30% coverage.

    Rubenar8

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Jet Plate CTP

      How did you come to 11 $ per 1 sqm. I would like to know details, as I work in Zimbabe and Zambia and our labour costs are lower than in US or Europe. I was considering JetPlate, as well. Anybody out here uses it? It use stochastic screening only. Is that a problem?
      Misko

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Jet Plate CTP

        Please look at Glunz & Jensen in Danmark they can offer you more

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Jet Plate CTP

          Get Jetplate to give you a Benchmark. Get G&J to give you one as well. I bet you'll see that the JetPlate results blow G&J out of the water.

          Call and ask for Mike or ask to speak to one of the tech guys there. Darryl or Mick.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Jet Plate CTP

            Hans, can you confirm a few things?


            1. Can G&J offer a 98% comparable proof to press sheet?

            2. Why did G&J switch from the Roland 300 system to the Epson 4800 as JetPlate has been using for many years?

            3. Why doesn't G&J ever have a press sheet or a working sytem on display at the trade shows?

            4. Why doesn't G&J offer more than one proprietary plate for use when JetPlate offers several available plates in final staging of testing in addition to the well known Kodak Craftsman plate?

            5. The Jetplate system sounds like it is faster in every regard. Also features AM and FM (Stochastic) screening according to the info seen on their website.

            6. Anyone would be hard pressed to make any purchase with G&J considering that they've never produced a press sheet for distribution at any of their tradeshows. At least JetPlate has consitently supplied press sheets as well as displayed a fully functional demo of their platesetters.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jinthebay View Post
              Hans, can you confirm a few things?


              1. Can G&J offer a 98% comparable proof to press sheet?

              2. Why did G&J switch from the Roland 300 system to the Epson 4800 as JetPlate has been using for many years?

              3. Why doesn't G&J ever have a press sheet or a working sytem on display at the trade shows?

              4. Why doesn't G&J offer more than one proprietary plate for use when JetPlate offers several available plates in final staging of testing in addition to the well known Kodak Craftsman plate?

              5. The Jetplate system sounds like it is faster in every regard. Also features AM and FM (Stochastic) screening according to the info seen on their website.

              6. Anyone would be hard pressed to make any purchase with G&J considering that they've never produced a press sheet for distribution at any of their tradeshows. At least JetPlate has consitently supplied press sheets as well as displayed a fully functional demo of their platesetters.
              Jin, I know you mean well but you wouldnt recommend any of these systems today now would you!

              Neither would I!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jinthebay View Post
                Hans, can you confirm a few things?
                see my composite answer below..

                1. Can G&J offer a 98% comparable proof to press sheet?
                G&J do not offer to provide a 98% comparable proof, however G&J use the SAME Epson vDOTII and vDOTIII colour Proofing plugin that Jetplate do, both come from Xitron and are considered the industry standard proofing plugin from Xitron for Epson based devices.

                2. Why did G&J switch from the Roland 300 system to the Epson 4800 as JetPlate has been using for many years?
                G&J have never used the Epson4800, they did not consider the faceplate on the printhead used as being stable enough to provide a reliable solution. They did switch from the Roland to the Epson 4880, in conjunction to a joint venture agreement made with Epson, the Printhead is different, and a different coating on the faceplate is used by Epson with this head, and this coinceded with a customised firmware ware for specific platemaking and monochomatic primting - unique to Glunz & Jensen.

                3. Why doesn't G&J ever have a press sheet or a working sytem on display at the trade shows?
                I beleive all shows since 2007 they have, they also visit more shows than many other companies..

                4. Why doesn't G&J offer more than one proprietary plate for use when JetPlate offers several available plates in final staging of testing in addition to the well known Kodak Craftsman plate?
                Read the threads, Jetplate offer alternative plates as a sales pitch, but try and find some one buying one. In contrast, G&J who already have partnerships with all the major plate manufacturers choose to license the plate through multiple manufactuers, ensure consistant supply and no risk of the only supplier dropping out.

                5. The Jetplate system sounds like it is faster in every regard. Also features AM and FM (Stochastic) screening according to the info seen on their website.
                G&J system offers all the same modes of imaging as Jetplate, but included modes not available to Jetplate, though the G&J and Epson partnership, including interleaved modes enabling higher speed, higher resolution printing. The marketing material is not intended to target Jetplate, so does not specifically state it like that.
                In addition G&J RIP's and screens at higher resolution than Jetplate.
                The G&J system has AM functionality, but (see other threads),BUT in G&J's opinion it is not possible to reliably image conventional AM screening through Epson based 3 drop sized inkjet printheads. If you are a large, global , well respected company with a name and reputation to protect, you provide the functionality but do not promote it, as you know customes would be dissapointed if you sold the system under this premise. These features are not hidden, and even support HPS (Harlequin Precision screening), but again it is not recommended by G&J.

                6. Anyone would be hard pressed to make any purchase with G&J considering that they've never produced a press sheet for distribution at any of their tradeshows. At least JetPlate has consitently supplied press sheets as well as displayed a fully functional demo of their platesetters.
                You must go to different tradeshows to me, and I go to most. ALL tradeshows have had this, AND since G&J's generation II architeture, (read the last 18 months), Glunz and Jensen have been giving to users Loupes, Press sheets and plates in specially made carriers to take away..

                This is not a discontinued theme either, G&J did this as recently as Graphics of Americas.
                Last edited by iCtP; 04-01-2009, 04:01 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  InkjetCTP_Waste-of-Money,

                  For the record, the posts you see with my name were made almost a year ago. I am not at liberty to comment on this due to fear of recrimination. Lets just say that I'd prefer to leave it as "No Comment"

                  Besides, I'm pretty sure that we already know each other. Again, No Comment!

                  Talk soon.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    [QUOTE=iCtP;109157]see my composite answer below..

                    1. Can G&J offer a 98% comparable proof to press sheet?
                    G&J do not offer to provide a 98% comparable proof, however G&J use the SAME Epson vDOTII and vDOTIII colour Proofing plugin that Jetplate do, both come from Xitron and are considered the industry standard proofing plugin from Xitron for Epson based devices. But a ICC profiled proofing system is not part of the G&J system, and you WILL NOT reproduce the same print quality as perfected by JetPlate, not even Xitron could reproduce the color JetPlate produced due to the experience of the indiduals they employed (Past tense, now, there is nothing there.)

                    2. Why did G&J switch from the Roland 300 system to the Epson 4800 as JetPlate has been using for many years?
                    G&J have never used the Epson4800, you know what he was referring to. They still couldnt get the Roland machine to perform correctly. As for any agreement with Epson, I seriously would question this, Epson could just as well see all of these companies that butcher their machines to go away. Unless G&J has spent $10 million for some licensing agreement or signed a contract to purchase thousands of machines per year, I can assure you there are NO agreements between the 2 companies that will enhance their system This is inaccurate and should be removed from these posts. they did not consider the faceplate on the printhead used as being stable enough to provide a reliable solution. They did switch from the Roland to the Epson 4880, in conjunction to a joint venture agreement made with Epson, the Printhead is different, and a different coating on the faceplate is used by Epson with this head, The print head uses an ink repellent coating to help with the head clogs and this coinceded with a customised firmware ware for specific platemaking and monochomatic primting - unique to Glunz & Jensen. Again I would like to see this agreement before I would believe it, I have met most of the Epson VPs at different trade shows and being in this industry for so long, I can assure you again, Epson is in this business to make money and sell machines, they will not work with any of these 3rd party vendors that DO NOT USE EPSON CONSUMEABLES.

                    3. Why doesn't G&J ever have a press sheet or a working sytem on display at the trade shows?
                    I beleive all shows since 2007 they have, they also visit more shows than many other companies.. The 1 or 2 press sheets (literally thats all you had in quantity, you didnt even have enough to pass out) they did show were questionable if anything. Any machine can print a decent 4 color black with some small 4 color saturated images on it. Both companies use the same lizard image from the older GATF images. These images have been enhanced to print well on these machines. Try a 40-60% tint screen at 11x17 and look at the streaks and inconsitencies.

                    Why dont you just say you work for G&J?
                    Last edited by InkjetCTP_waste_of_money; 04-23-2009, 02:31 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      See my response in Blue...

                      1. Can G&J offer a 98% comparable proof to press sheet?
                      G&J do not offer to provide a 98% comparable proof, however G&J use the SAME Epson vDOTII and vDOTIII colour Proofing plugin that Jetplate do, both come from Xitron and are considered the industry standard proofing plugin from Xitron for Epson based devices. But a ICC profiled proofing system is not part of the G&J system, and you WILL NOT reproduce the same print quality as perfected by JetPlate, not even Xitron could reproduce the color JetPlate produced due to the experience of the indiduals they employed (Past tense, now, there is nothing there.)
                      [iCtP] Yes it is, all systems ship with both the vDot2 and vDot 3 plugins. And the icc Profiles, HOWEVER, the icc profiles are not active unless the user purchases the Harlequin ColourPro unlock code to activate them.

                      2. Why did G&J switch from the Roland 300 system to the Epson 4800 as JetPlate has been using for many years?
                      G&J have never used the Epson4800, you know what he was referring to. They still couldnt get the Roland machine to perform correctly. As for any agreement with Epson, I seriously would question this, Epson could just as well see all of these companies that butcher their machines to go away. Unless G&J has spent $10 million for some licensing agreement or signed a contract to purchase thousands of machines per year, I can assure you there are NO agreements between the 2 companies that will enhance their system This is inaccurate and should be removed from these posts.
                      [iCtP] Well as I work for G&J R&D I should accurately be able to assist you in an answer here. We are Epson Intergrators, we have Epson technology colaboration, and we use our own customised Epson Firmware. Go to any of our customers, remove the cart and put it back in...(or at an exhibition) and you will see the printer thinks about it then comes up "Geniune GJ cart". Put a third party cart in, and regardless of the supplier it will come up as unknown, or not geniune. Look at the cart you remove.. it is a Genuine Epson cart... not a third party one. And the sum you state is not accurate but the principle might be correct.

                      they did not consider the faceplate on the printhead used as being stable enough to provide a reliable solution. They did switch from the Roland to the Epson 4880, in conjunction to a joint venture agreement made with Epson, the Printhead is different, and a different coating on the faceplate is used by Epson with this head, The print head uses an ink repellent coating to help with the head clogs and this coinceded with a customised firmware ware for specific platemaking and monochomatic primting - unique to Glunz & Jensen. Again I would like to see this agreement before I would believe it, I have met most of the Epson VPs at different trade shows and being in this industry for so long, I can assure you again, Epson is in this business to make money and sell machines, they will not work with any of these 3rd party vendors that DO NOT USE EPSON CONSUMEABLES.
                      [iCtP] Agreed, Epson does not work with vendors that doe not use thier consmables. All G&J carts are Epson carts under license., please don't make assumptions without checking the details
                      [iCtP]. You have probably been talking to Epson Reseller VP's, these do not deal with either the OEM, or Intergrator side of thier business.

                      3. Why doesn't G&J ever have a press sheet or a working sytem on display at the trade shows?
                      I beleive all shows since 2007 they have, they also visit more shows than many other companies.. The 1 or 2 press sheets (literally thats all you had in quantity, you didnt even have enough to pass out) they did show were questionable if anything. Any machine can print a decent 4 color black with some small 4 color saturated images on it. Both companies use the same lizard image from the older GATF images. These images have been enhanced to print well on these machines. Try a 40-60% tint screen at 11x17 and look at the streaks and inconsitencies.
                      [iCtP] Okay, we definetly go to different shows. You say you went to Drupa? We had 24 different samples, of all varieties. Noneof them the Lizard sample we ahven't used that for years.
                      But, a good point... I agree, a standard Epson engine in Mono Chromatic mode may struggle with a 40 -60% tint in terms of stepping or unifromity, especially if you are a Jetplate user and you output in 720, or 1440x 720 dpi modes - this is "A" typical of their machine. And indeed we saw similar issues with our first generation products... . With our second generation PW2000, and PW2400 machines, G&J uses a much more advanced plugin, with customised firmware, outputing at higher resolutions and interweaving with a rolling wave pattern - with additional microweave. This coupled with custom devloped screening minimises or eliminates this. However, I would suggest users run samples plates of their own creation to check print quality on this or any other device.


                      (Ohh and no, this is definetly NOT the same plugin as Jetplates... it is definetly from a different source... I know to whom you refer...this is way more advanced...with some quite advanced controls for grey point step generation, grey levels, beta curve correction, fine line enhancement, text edge definition and screen coarsness controls, solid inking controls, halftone inking controls... the whole 9 yards...I have seen the one to which you refer and its more like "my first plugin" i comparison... but then G&J had the funds to devlop this and mature it, where other didn't.)

                      Why dont you just say you work for G&J?[/quote]

                      Yes, I do work for G&J. But I thought I said that already?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Response to the response....

                        Originally posted by iCtP View Post
                        See my response in Blue...

                        1. Can G&J offer a 98% comparable proof to press sheet?
                        G&J do not offer to provide a 98% comparable proof, however G&J use the SAME Epson vDOTII and vDOTIII colour Proofing plugin that Jetplate do, both come from Xitron and are considered the industry standard proofing plugin from Xitron for Epson based devices. But a ICC profiled proofing system is not part of the G&J system, and you WILL NOT reproduce the same print quality as perfected by JetPlate, not even Xitron could reproduce the color JetPlate produced due to the experience of the indiduals they employed (Past tense, now, there is nothing there.)
                        [iCtP] Yes it is, all systems ship with both the vDot2 and vDot 3 plugins. And the icc Profiles, HOWEVER, the icc profiles are not active unless the user purchases the Harlequin ColourPro unlock code to activate them.

                        As you know the trick is not to use the embedded ICC profiles...

                        2. Why did G&J switch from the Roland 300 system to the Epson 4800 as JetPlate has been using for many years?
                        G&J have never used the Epson4800, you know what he was referring to. They still couldnt get the Roland machine to perform correctly. As for any agreement with Epson, I seriously would question this, Epson could just as well see all of these companies that butcher their machines to go away. Unless G&J has spent $10 million for some licensing agreement or signed a contract to purchase thousands of machines per year, I can assure you there are NO agreements between the 2 companies that will enhance their system This is inaccurate and should be removed from these posts.
                        [iCtP] Well as I work for G&J R&D I should accurately be able to assist you in an answer here. We are Epson Intergrators, we have Epson technology colaboration, and we use our own customised Epson Firmware. Go to any of our customers, remove the cart and put it back in...(or at an exhibition) and you will see the printer thinks about it then comes up "Geniune GJ cart". Put a third party cart in, and regardless of the supplier it will come up as unknown, or not geniune. Look at the cart you remove.. it is a Genuine Epson cart... not a third party one. And the sum you state is not accurate but the principle might be correct.


                        Well then quite possibly you are well on your way to solving most of the issues the other companies are running into, its nice to have deep pockets. I was NEVER afforded that priveledge. I look forward to seeing these changes firsthand, however since I am not in the business of Inkjet CTP any more, I choose to be a freelance Prepress/IT trainer. It may be sometime before I am able to see it.

                        they did not consider the faceplate on the printhead used as being stable enough to provide a reliable solution. They did switch from the Roland to the Epson 4880, in conjunction to a joint venture agreement made with Epson, the Printhead is different, and a different coating on the faceplate is used by Epson with this head, The print head uses an ink repellent coating to help with the head clogs and this coinceded with a customised firmware ware for specific platemaking and monochomatic primting - unique to Glunz & Jensen. Again I would like to see this agreement before I would believe it, I have met most of the Epson VPs at different trade shows and being in this industry for so long, I can assure you again, Epson is in this business to make money and sell machines, they will not work with any of these 3rd party vendors that DO NOT USE EPSON CONSUMEABLES.
                        [iCtP] Agreed, Epson does not work with vendors that doe not use thier consmables. All G&J carts are Epson carts under license., please don't make assumptions without checking the details

                        Well considering the complexity of the chips on these cartridges thats a huge hurdle to get over. Good for you. The other company's carts dont even show levels, they leak, and constantly give cartridge read errors, at least 1 out of 8. I guess its all about doing it right from the start. Some people have/had a hard time with this. Some people simply make a bad business dicission to get into something they have absolutely NO CLUE about, then turn it around for a quick profit, however it seems to have backfired on them.

                        [iCtP]. You have probably been talking to Epson Reseller VP's, these do not deal with either the OEM, or Intergrator side of thier business.


                        This is partly due to Epson's unwillingness to deal with the company and the egos of the company owners. Bad situation all the way around.

                        3. Why doesn't G&J ever have a press sheet or a working sytem on display at the trade shows?
                        I beleive all shows since 2007 they have, they also visit more shows than many other companies.. The 1 or 2 press sheets (literally thats all you had in quantity, you didnt even have enough to pass out) they did show were questionable if anything. Any machine can print a decent 4 color black with some small 4 color saturated images on it. Both companies use the same lizard image from the older GATF images. These images have been enhanced to print well on these machines. Try a 40-60% tint screen at 11x17 and look at the streaks and inconsitencies.
                        [iCtP] Okay, we definetly go to different shows. You say you went to Drupa? We had 24 different samples, of all varieties. Noneof them the Lizard sample we ahven't used that for years.

                        That is incorrect, you showed a roughly 22x26 black press sheet that you were not passing out, that sample had all of the old GATF images on it, the same ones used for what seems like a decade... lol, it has only been 6-7 months that you started passing out samples. And I certainly did not see more than 1, you say 24???? Where were they? Yes I did go to DRUPA, after that was Croatia.

                        But, a good point... I agree, a standard Epson engine in Mono Chromatic mode may struggle with a 40 -60% tint in terms of stepping or unifromity, especially if you are a Jetplate user and you output in 720, or 1440x 720 dpi modes - this is "A" typical of their machine. And indeed we saw similar issues with our first generation products... . With our second generation PW2000, and PW2400 machines, G&J uses a much more advanced plugin, with customised firmware, outputing at higher resolutions and interweaving with a rolling wave pattern - with additional microweave. This coupled with custom devloped screening minimises or eliminates this. However, I would suggest users run samples plates of their own creation to check print quality on this or any other device.



                        Again, I hate to say it, but the only way you would convince me otherwise is to see it for myself. All of these machines run fine for the first 6 months as I stated, I was able to rival a 300k CREO press sheet running on a Komori press at 22x26.5 sheet size. I know the machines run fine at the beginning, accept with the inherent flaws and issues described above, for the most part and the first 6 months the machines will do 85% of the work needed for the target market. Unfortunenatly its all down hill after that.

                        (Ohh and no, this is definetly NOT the same plugin as Jetplates... it is definetly from a different source... I know to whom you refer...this is way more advanced...with some quite advanced controls for grey point step generation, grey levels, beta curve correction, fine line enhancement, text edge definition and screen coarsness controls, solid inking controls, halftone inking controls... the whole 9 yards...I have seen the one to which you refer and its more like "my first plugin" i comparison... but then G&J had the funds to devlop this and mature it, where other didn't.)


                        [COLOR="orange"]You first plugin?" I spent 7 months on that plugin. I am not sure which one you are talking about defintley not the JetPlate2 or even the IJ2P (Which was a total POS)COLOR]

                        Why dont you just say you work for G&J?
                        Yes, I do work for G&J. But I thought I said that already?[/QUOTE]

                        Yes you did...

                        Comment

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