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Violet vs. Thermal

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  • Violet vs. Thermal

    The debate continues... anyone have some good insight into the advantages of one over another?
    We are currently using Agfa violet, but have been submitted a proposal for Kodak thermal.

  • #2
    Re: Violet vs. Thermal

    What debate?

    Kodak just announced their new violet newsetter.

    It's more of an issue of best fit. If you are thinking
    about throwing the baby out with the bathwater,
    then you'd owe it to yourself to look at Agfa's
    thermal plates as well. More and more I'm
    finding customers switching to Amigo low-
    chemistry plates, rather than waiting for our
    violet chem-free, now in controlled sales.

    Good luck with your quest.
    Steve Musselman, Agfa Graphics - USA,
    Senior Corporate Account Executive

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Violet vs. Thermal

      Hi Chris,

      Here is a a quick rundown.

      Violet has a lower cost of ownership due to lower cost of the laser and internal drum (at least in the case of the Prosetter) architecture. This brings up an interesting point with the Prosetter, it has the tightest registration with punch spec out of all CtP. This is due to the internal drum. The plate is gripped, inserted in the drum and vacuumed. It is image and then punched without moving the plate. This gives us a accuracy of +/- 5 microns. On external drums, including our own, the plate has to be punched before mounting or after dismounting. Typically, this will provide +/- 25 microns

      The laser will probably out live the life of the violet CtP whereas thermal will not. Quality of violet and thermal are the same but with the proper plate for most work, we can go up to 400 line with thermal and 300 with violet. Both can do FM.

      Our violet plate, Saphira Violet, rolls up extremely fast, typically 17 sheets. Currently, there area about 7 violet plates on the market. Violet requires to be under a yellow safe light whereas most thermal plates do not. The exception is the thermal processless, they are only good for about 1 hour while light and they can extend this by being under yellow light to 4 or 12 hours, depending on plate. Thermal Chemfree is white light safe. Thermal offers over over 40 plates to choose from. Our Saphira violet plate is good for 350,000. Many thermal can be baked to get into the millions. This also would give longer UV runs for thermal whereas our violet is only for very short UV runs.

      As Steve mentioned, chemfree is available for thermal today and not yet for violet but chemfree typically is rated for 100,000, whereas the violet to 350,000.

      Either way you look at it, both make plates and do a great job of it.

      Regards,

      Mark Tonkovich
      Heidelberg USA
      Product Manager, CtP & Proofing
      Mark Tonkovich
      Heidelberg USA

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Violet vs. Thermal

        Mark,
        Would I be correct in assuming Agfa makes both the violet and thermal plates sold by Heidelberg? Does the "chemfree" sold under your brand have a wash off unit as part of the plate line?
        Thanks.
        Bob Hill
        Mid-States Graphics

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Violet vs. Thermal

          I'm reading alot about thermal and violet plates now. It sounds like I'd be better off waiting for Afga's N92v plates and modify the existing galileo platesetter to run them - are they processless?. Can we modify the galileo to run processless violet plates?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Violet vs. Thermal

            Mark,

            What kind of info can you provide on the Suprasetter A52?

            I heard a replacement laser is about $20,000.

            How green is it?

            Jaime Z

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Violet vs. Thermal

              Hi Bob,

              Policy will not let me state which plate manufacturers we are using. I can tell you that we do work close with them and test thoroughly to make sure they meet our needs. We also provide feedback to the manufactures, which may results in changes to better this product. We do not only sell plates but also proofing paper, blankets, etc. Yes, our Saphira Chemfree plate use a offline clean out unit. This is one of the main reasons we choose this technology, we prefer to have to do maintenance on a small clean out unit then develop on press. Besides, there is very good contrast to the Chemfree plate, you can Q.C. it. And it is not white light sensitive like the processless. But I heard at Graph Expo that offline clean out units are being offered for processless. If you sell them, perhaps you can confirm.

              Hi Jamie,

              Printplanet frowns on pricing discussion on the forum. Let me say from what you stated, you will have enough money left to buy enough hamburgers to feed thousands of people. I can have you local rep call you to discuss.

              The A52 is our 6th generation CtP. It, along with the Prosetter P52, allows us to offer a 2up thermal or 2 up violet CtP. Both offer internal punching, upgrades to automation and field format upgrade from 2 up to 4up. Laser spot size on both Suprasetter and Prosetter is 11 micron (Actually 10.6). In both cases, the laser is only on when imaging (many thermal laser are on when the CtP is on). The Suprasetter A52 has a built in debris removal system for Chemfree/Processless. Although we prefer to sell our plates (we offer 4 different thermal plates), there are over 40 plates certified on the Suprasetter. The ATL (Auto Top Loader)for the Suprasetter is unique in that it sits on top of the CtP to keep a small footprint.

              As for green, are you referring to the Chemfree plate? The clean out unit has no developer, it has gum that helps clean and protect the plate.



              Best regards,

              Mark Tonkovich
              Heidelberg USA, Inc.
              Product Manager, CtP & Proofing
              Mark Tonkovich
              Heidelberg USA

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Violet vs. Thermal

                Chris.

                If your Galileo is a 60 mW violet laser, then you will be able to image our N91v, N92 and Violet Chem-Free plates. If the Galileo is an earlier 5mW system, then a head upgrade will put you in position to image the aforementioned plates. N92V is not chem-free, but our chem-free is an extension of our photopolymer technology. I hope this helps.
                Steve Musselman, Agfa Graphics - USA,
                Senior Corporate Account Executive

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Violet vs. Thermal

                  Thanks Steve,

                  We are using the Galileo VS with a 532nm laser and Lithostar Ultra LAP-V plates. I can't find any specs for the mW reading of the laser - perhaps you can tell me from this info. And what about the plates? I thought the N92 were the processless? What does AGFA have for the violet processless plate and when is it going to be commercially available?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Violet vs. Thermal

                    Chris -

                    N92V is our next generation N91V.

                    Our ChemFree violet photopolymer is from the same family -
                    but these are two different products. The Violet ChemFree is in controlled sales now, and should be in full release commercially in about 6 months.

                    523 nm is green... if you are using LAP-V, then you have a violet laser.
                    Your service technician can tell you if your laser is 5mW or 60 mW.
                    If your Galileo was new after about 2005, then it's probably 60 mW.

                    If 5Mw, there are carriage/laser upgrades available to enable you to use our violet ChemFree, once released.

                    Regards,
                    Steve Musselman, Agfa Graphics - USA,
                    Senior Corporate Account Executive

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Violet vs. Thermal

                      If you are looking at purchasing a new system or looking for another manufacturer don't forget Fuji.

                      Fuji manufactures violet, thermal and thermal process less plates.

                      I am a field tech for Fuji. Hope you do not mind I thought I would mention the company that thankfully keeps me employed!

                      I will say if you are looking at making a change give Fuji a try we love going head to head with anyone, anytime anyplace.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Violet vs. Thermal

                        another vote for fuji...lh-pse thermal plates have been very reliable for us.

                        cr

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Violet vs. Thermal

                          I'm not a field tech for Fuji, just a helluva happy Fuji violet customer. Been running a Luxel V6 [B2 size], since Dec '06. Fortunately we have 2 same-plate presses, so can use auto cassette. 20 plates/hour. Fit/dot all well within our requirements. We've been told that the 30mW laser will do the processless when they come in. 5 years/5,000 hrs. warranty on the [single] laser. Shout if you want more detail.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            any help me pls... 300 thermal plate developer i accidentally add some replenisher is the 300 thermal plate developer will be useless or or it could have a effect on the plate??? help me pls....

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rain_27 View Post
                              any help me pls... 300 thermal plate developer i accidentally add some replenisher is the 300 thermal plate developer will be useless or or it could have a effect on the plate??? help me pls....
                              Hi Rain_27 -

                              It's hard to give you a definite answer based on little info, but I'll do what I can to help. How much of which replenisher did you add to where? If you let me know where you are, I can have a local Kodak tech support person call you.

                              (300 dev. is for Electra XD, so I'm assuming that's what you're using)
                              Kevin Cazabon / kevin.cazabon@efi.com

                              Comment

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