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Color registration and rich black standard's ISO 12647-2

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  • Color registration and rich black standard's ISO 12647-2

    Hi all,
    We're printing with Heidelberg Offset machines and lately have some color misregistration problems, so i was wondering is there a tolerance according ISO 12647 standard? Also to this misregistration problem adds a substrate shrinkage between print sections.
    The other problem is we have an automated workflow and one of printed designs slipped with CMYK x 100 color in the small objects, so now we've got a customer complaint with misregistered (ghosted) objects in the print. So now we're looking for an answer to our customer and I think there should be mentioned some tolerances in this ISO standard. This file was not trapped.

    Could please anyone help on this? Didn't find anything on the web...

  • #2
    Originally posted by Evaldas Gu View Post
    Hi all,
    We're printing with Heidelberg Offset machines and lately have some color misregistration problems, so i was wondering is there a tolerance according ISO 12647 standard? Also to this misregistration problem adds a substrate shrinkage between print sections.
    The other problem is we have an automated workflow and one of printed designs slipped with CMYK x 100 color in the small objects, so now we've got a customer complaint with misregistered (ghosted) objects in the print. So now we're looking for an answer to our customer and I think there should be mentioned some tolerances in this ISO standard. This file was not trapped.

    Could please anyone help on this? Didn't find anything on the web...
    AFAIK the tolerance for mis registration is zero. Historically, the informal tolerance was half a row of dots at 175 lpi. But that's not a specification or standard.
    Could you elaborate on the sheet shrinkage between units (Back sheet flare (a.k.a. flare-out or coning), back sheet stretch, waggle, fit?)
    What grain direction is your paper?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by gordo View Post

      AFAIK the tolerance for mis registration is zero. Historically, the informal tolerance was half a row of dots at 175 lpi. But that's not a specification or standard.
      Could you elaborate on the sheet shrinkage between units (Back sheet flare (a.k.a. flare-out or coning), back sheet stretch, waggle, fit?)
      What grain direction is your paper?
      Not sure if understood the question correctly, but the grain direction is aligned with print direction. About shrinkage. It seems that on the press the bottom of the page is shrinked horizontally during the print, compared cropmarks on the top are aligned perfectly and the bottom ones are off about 0,05 mm.
      Last edited by Evaldas Gu; 01-23-2019, 02:13 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hello Evaldas,


        YOU are running- -

        the Paper Grain in the wrong direction........ IT should run across the "Width of the Press"

        NOT around the "Circumference" of the Cyiinders


        With not running the correct direction ......... the Paper is Fanning Out at the leave edge.


        Regards, Alois
        Last edited by Alois Senefelder; 01-23-2019, 03:07 PM. Reason: **************

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Evaldas Gu View Post

          Not sure if understood the question correctly, but the grain direction is aligned with print direction. About shrinkage. It seems that on the press the bottom of the page is shrinked horizontally during the print, compared cropmarks on the top are aligned perfectly and the bottom ones are off about 0,05 mm.
          Unlike web presses, on sheetfed presses paper grain can be in the same direction as the paper's path through the press. Or, it can be across the sheet. Often it's the bindery/finishing that determines which way to run. That being said, with changes in moisture content, paper expands or contracts more in the cross direction than in the grain direction and that affects registration. The best relative humidity to maintain the paper's dimensional stability is 35%-50%. Ideally the moisture content of the paper in multi-color printing should be slightly above than its equilibrium value with the relative humidity of the pressroom.

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          • #6
            And does anyone know about rich black standad? Is ir standartized under ISO or so? We usually print in CMY x60 + 100 black.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Evaldas Gu View Post
              And does anyone know about rich black standad? Is ir standartized under ISO or so? We usually print in CMY x60 + 100 black.
              AFAIK, no, there is no ISO standard for rich black because it is usually a shop specific choice. The rich black recipe is usually chosen by testing or by tradition.

              Usually you want to maintain neutrality or a slight bias to Cyan. Your recipe may not produce a neutral rich black.
              So what you'll often see is 100K 75C 60M 60Y or 100K 50C 40M 40Y
              Some shops just use 100K 60C

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              • #8
                Hello Evaldas,


                Question, What exactly are you reproducing in "Rich Black" ...... Text, H/tones or Solids ??


                Regards, Alois

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Alois Senefelder View Post
                  Hello Evaldas,


                  Question, What exactly are you reproducing in "Rich Black" ...... Text, H/tones or Solids ??


                  Regards, Alois
                  In this particular case there was vector picture with small elements.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Evaldas Gu View Post

                    In this particular case there was vector picture with small elements.
                    Define “small “.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by gordo View Post

                      Define “small “.
                      0,3-10mm it's an illustration with lines and bigger objects...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hello Evaldas,


                        Why as this image got to be printed "Rich Black" ??


                        Regards, Alois

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Alois Senefelder View Post
                          Hello Evaldas,


                          Why as this image got to be printed "Rich Black" ??


                          Regards, Alois
                          Actually it was printed due to an error in automated process or to perhaps it's correct to say that this situation was not foreseen, and we've got a claim from our client, the fact is that the file from him was not correct when received (cmyk x100), and here comes the question of who's responsible for it. It is mentioned in recomendations that max TAC is 280%, but i would like to have more arguments on this.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Per ISO 12647-2 2013, section 4.3.5 Tolerancing for image position,
                            "SHALL not exceed 0.10mm between any two colors"
                            0.10mm = 0.004"
                            I think previous edition varied tolerance based on sheet size and caliper weight?
                            Steve Suffoletto - Buffalo/Rochester, NY
                            Last edited by SteveSuffRIT; 01-25-2019, 09:36 AM.

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