How automated is your Prinergy?

HiTech_Monkeyboy

Well-known member
Hey Guys,

I'm looking for any real world information on just how automated prinergy really is and if you were really able to reduce staff like the rep told the bosses. Read the Last thread on prinergy being the only fully automated workflow and got some good info but if anyone could give some prinergy specific info, that would be better.

Thanks,
Monkey
 
Re: How automated is your Prinergy?

Hey [~HiTech_Monkeyboy],

OK, we've got Prinergy Evo 4.x.

We think it's great for automating, but probably no where near as comprehensive as Prinergy Connect.

The beautiful thing, however, about Prinergy Evo 4.x is that it has the Preps™ engine built in. This means standardised products can be full automated from handing it a PDF and getting a plate at the end.

For example we have a queue for fully automatic output of black & White magazine work for our 4-UP press. They are automatically perfected. The Preps template is a perfecting template with auto-select based on our run list. So if you can give the queue a 48 page PDF (or in multiples of your minimum page up count. eg 52pp) it can convert them to grayscale (using the Refine PDF) auto-select the templates (including partial signatures) and impose the PDF's and then begin ripping for Ripped PDF softproof, VPS proofing (Very cool) or Epson Inkjet proofs and of course your Plate Queue.

You can choose WHEN you NEED to intervene. For example automatically create VPS Proofs (raster proofing) but wait before plates are output.

That is so beautiful for that kind of automation. The thing just sings along!

You can GROUP files and get the queue to wait for a preset amount of pages before going to imposition. Such as 16 Pages before it allows you to impose. So you can simply have 16 pages dropped into a holder folder. Or dragged onto the Queue in Prinergy Evo client. (most likely) Once it get 16 pages (or whatever you set) it will begin the next process.

So it works 100% automatic for standardised products. And it works quite quickly.

VPS Proofing also remembers all the trim boxes, bleed boxes, page numbers from the JDF imposition. Which you can toggle on/off. Which I think is just fantastic for checking impositions!

For jobs which you have to manually impose in Preps™ itself, you simply create a queue (or multiple queues for different papers stocks if needed) which takes JDF imposed as input. Simply drag the JDF file to the input queue (or again hot folder) and the rest can still be automated.

What's also pretty good, is that if you load a Preps™ template into a Worfklow and it runs a job, it will create the imposition as a JDF as the intermediatery format. Which is brilliant since it's round-tripable. Open the JDF file into Preps™ and it will be just like an Preps™ job. It will show you the run list the templates and signatures selected. You don't have to go digging for the JDF file either. You feel like you have a lot of control. If someone has run a job and you need to change the imposition or something, the output file (JDF) is always there for making last page adjustments. It's nice.

So bottom line if you have standardised jobs (4 page A4 W/T) it can do it 100% automatically. Even magazine work, as long as you supply the correct amount of pages and have your partial signatures options set where you want them to create it can still create it 100% automatic.

For those custom imposed jobs (gang ups etc) you can still do it in preps and output JDF and drag it to Evo and do the rest automatically or as semi-automatically as you like. You can wait after each process is done. For example PDF trapping.

We have all these little queues set up for GTO perf and Numbering. We spent the time to setup the templates so that the perfs sit in the right position (same position). Now the operator simply drags a PDF to the suitable queue which automatically creates a VPS proof which he checks quickly. Then outputs the plate with a click. (our Magnus 400 is fully automatic). He can seriously pump through so many plates for that simple work it's beautiful. I can come in mid morning and there's a little stack of GTO plates on the plate stacker.

So you can say we're really happy with the system...

Edited by: Dwane Hollands on Aug 7, 2008 10:03 AM
 
Re: How automated is your Prinergy?

WOw Duane, that sounds great. I was a little skeptical of the reality of automation. It's still dependant on getting the files in correct to begin with though, right? Have you had any issues in training your customers to send PDFs that are ready to go?

Monkey
 
Hey Monkey!

Well our custom base is pretty low-tech. So getting something in PDF is the most we can hope for sometimes. I'd like to go with an RGB colour managed workflow - converting at RIPing time and in fact, the main prepress/designer actually has been using the Refine PDF Convert to CMYK and says the conversion is excellent, giving him great conversions and saving him time in editing. The source images are from Dlibrary for catalogue work.

I actually didn't ask him, he simply mentioned that today in passing.

Now if you have a "Group files" task in there that waits for 16 pages and you only supply 5 through the Evo client, it won't alllow you to add the other 11 to that job. Well OK, I don't know how to do that at this point. I usually drag the entire 16 to the template and let it run. However, I tested today with a hotfolder attached to the same Queue and it will allow partial supply of pdf's to the folder. IF you keep adding them, they will add it to the queue.

Haven't tested it for naming convention/page numbers and run list alignment yet. Again, we usually just supply the entire document to the Evo system.

Again it can fully automate standard jobbing work very easily(with intervention where you like it). Now if you've got a magazine job which is a mixture of black & white sections and CMYK sections you have to intervene more. You can still get it to fully automatically impose, but you'd need to pay attention to where you partial signatures fall. In fact it might be a case for preps™ manual imposition. For example, if you've qouted 4 pages of CMYK in a Work & Turn situation on a 4 up press, you might need to put the work & turn at signature 5 of 8, instead of normally 8. (with the normal option of "Place Partial Signature "0" signatures from end"). Other wise you might get a work & Back section with 4 pages of black & White and 4 pages of CMYK. Meaning you have an extra 4 plates and redundant black sections on a CMYK run.

You can at last stage, select which separations you want to output. Just the black plate or Map your spot colours to another spot, or convert to CMYK. OR even as Insane as map another Process colour to another Process colour. I believe even, map a Cyan to a Spot if you like.

However, if you have a CMYK section that you want to go as Black, mapping the other separations to Black only gives a very dark and shocking result. (of course). So you might need to Refine to PDF (works with PDF's aswell as postscript) to convert those pages to Gray first etc.

What is good however, is that it determines how many separations there are based on content, NOT your colour bars. So if you have a grayscale PDF, imposed in a standard Preps™ template with all the CMYK furniture. It will still show only a single black plate to be output. Very subtle but handy feature.

Means you don't have to always switch off the CMY channels. Other late stage edits you can make, are applying what Curve you would like on output. Position on imposition on plate. (X or Y coordinates etc)

BTW, We had a CTP technician here at one stage and he asked me whether I had any live work to output once he was finished. So I booted up Evo and began processing some work. He asked me what the software I was using. I said Prinergy Evo. He said, "I've done a course on Evo and I didn't even know it could do that!" Basically it was the automation part of it with workflows. All fairness to him, he's the engineer for the hardware, not the workflow guy. So yeah it's pretty impressive.
 
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We have Prinergy Connect and utilize 4 automated rule sets.

One creates a low res PDF that our CSR's access and send to our clients for approval.
Another rule is for archiving and exports the job as a zip, then destroys the job and the low res PDF.
The other two rules tweak our CIP 3/PrintLink files for our press room.

Make sure you ask for Automation training, because Kodak won't create rules for you for free. The documentation is decent, but some scripting/programming knowledge is helpful.

In my humble opinion, newspapers and plants with repetitive printing specs really benefit from automation more than small commercial shops, but it's still pretty cool.

If I could convince our production manager and estimators to standardize sheet sizes and Preps templates, then I could effectively Automate my way right out of my job!
 
We have 67 active rules running.

Some of our rules do amazing things and other are very basic. Basic would be a manual start that sends a LoRes PDF to the CSR assigned to the InSite customer selected for that particular job. One of the more complex ones involves final output. We narrowed down our plate output choices from 80+ to 2 with RBA! We have over 20 presses of varying type and size, plus 3 paper types, and screening choices. Now we pipe the job data into custom fields in the prinergy job from our MIS ticketing system. Our operators now choose the Magnus 800 or VLF based on which plates are in each machine, the rest is handled by RBA based on the custom fields in the job info.

Im somewhat of a rookie at RBA, but I had a good teacher. Our RBA guru who created most of our automation has left us to go work for the Big Red Machine (Kodak) teaching other shops how to automate. He tells me that most shops look at automation the wrong way. You should not necessarily see it as automating yourself and others out of a job, but as an opportunity to reduce errors and produce more work with the same number of operators.

Sales growth needs to keep pace with technology! We should not have to hold back on technology for fear of eliminating jobs. So automate away and show them that the sales staff cant keep up!

Back to my cave now to automate more STUFF..........
 
GiveUsPDF's,

Was your teacher Andrew?

And I thought Kodak was the Big Yellow Machine?

Roger
 
Yes it was Andrew. Man I miss that goofy bugger. Did I mention hes one of the best RBA guys out there?

All the Kodak tags on our equipment are Red hence Big Red Machine. Then again they could be yellow and I could be color blind...... Good thing I'm not the color guy!
 
Yes it was Andrew. Man I miss that goofy bugger. Did I mention hes one of the best RBA guys out there?

All the Kodak tags on our equipment are Red hence Big Red Machine. Then again they could be yellow and I could be color blind...... Good thing I'm not the color guy!

guys, could some body send me a pdf document about cip link between kodak ctp and KBA press machine?:confused:
 

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