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  • Staccato Screening

    Hi All


    We currently print all work 'Kodak' staccato screening.

    20 Micron - Coated
    25 Micron - Uncoated

    We have good process control in all areas, We currenty print to ISO Spec and we use image control to keep to these standards. We proof to fogra standards, so we should be able to acheive a Commercially acceptable, Proof to print match on coated boards (uncoated is another problem to discuss).

    We sometimes struggle to match tints ie, Light blues, bascially light colours. Im sure this is staccato screening which his causing this problem, change to AM and you get the match you require.


    What do you think.

  • #2
    Re: Staccato Screening

    Dan
    I should keep printing conventional - clients wont know the difference

    Peter

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Staccato Screening

      Noticing the same thing with lighter colors/pastels and Stacatto screening (actually HDS, but virtually same thing). The interior gamut is slightly different which could account for this. If you have the capability, a device-link workflow could clear this up.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Staccato Screening

        RE: Michael Eddington wrote: "Stacatto screening (actually HDS, but virtually same thing)"

        Actually Staccato is not HDS.

        And

        "Noticing the same thing with lighter colors/pastels and Stacatto screening (actually HDS, but virtually same thing). The interior gamut is slightly different which could account for this. If you have the capability, a device-link workflow could clear this up."

        In fact 20 micron Staccato has a larger gamut than an AM screen up to about 350 lpi (at which point the gamuts are about the same) The gamut difference shows up at the perimeter of the gamut - not internally. This is because Staccato's distribution and size of dots allows more light to be filtered by the ink. Also, AM screens lose some of their possible gamut because of the non-homogenous film of ink on each dot. The gamut difference shows up from the 3/4 tones up into the 1/4 tones (pastels) in one and two color screen tint builds. Also contributing to the difference is the relative coverage of ink in the 1/4 tones. Ink filters light - including UV (i.e. optical brightners) the greater number of small dots in pastels may be cutting a bit more of the brightners than the AM screen.

        Here is an animated gif that compares 175 lpi to 20 micron Staccato so that you can see where the added gamut lies. The dot gains of the presswork were normalized so that they matched tonally. Solid densities and traps are also the same. You may have to wait a moment for the graphic to load and animate.

        !http://www.bytephoto.com/photopost/data/500/10692Gamut.gif!

        best, gordo

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Staccato Screening

          Thanks Guys

          Gordon - If we are proofing to Fogra 39, surely dont we have to print AM to get a constant match. If we want to print staccato, then would we have to create a internal proof profile for our own inhouse standard.

          We print lots of greeting cards, so the pastels are quite common, Im really thinking of moving back to AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Staccato Screening

            Really they wont know the difference ?

            I have customers that will see the difference from 20 to 25 micron stacatto, granted its not a huge
            difference but you CAN see it.And it WILL get rejected.

            Its pretty typical to see the light tints print sharper, unless like mike mentioned are using a DVLP.

            John

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Staccato Screening

              Dan
              I print about 60 - 80 sets of Stacatto a day - I spoke to my press room manager today (and printers on shift) It would appear that we have problems with both AM and Staccato down the bottem end tints - we get amuch better match when we are running 200# linear plates. However we are matching the images very well and are loathed to bump the dot up in the qtr and mid tones


              All our proofs go through the Matchprintrip and are individually certified to Fogra39.

              The real problems we have is matching the intensity of the colour between 50 - 100 . We seem to print much more detail - which is great but client complain they can see mud on the tyres instead of black blobs.
              And also sometimes loosing the magenta dot on a Cyan solid - the dot just seems to be overwhelmed.

              You are running CMY sequence.???

              BTW I couldt see you name on the list on BPIF members ??

              Peter

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Staccato Screening

                Yep, this is a known "issue". There are workarounds. For instance, Rampage can create FM and AM items on the same flat.
                If this isn't possible within your workflow, I would run AM OR FM depending on the job itself....

                MDK

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Staccato Screening

                  Thanks for nice the clarification Gordo!

                  >Actually Staccato is not HDS.

                  Ok, perhaps not virtually, but I've seen it referenced that stacatto was based on Global Graphics HDS, or is this incorrect?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Staccato Screening

                    > {quote:title=meddington wrote:}{quote}
                    >
                    > Ok, perhaps not virtually, but I've seen it referenced that stacatto was based on Global Graphics HDS, or is this incorrect?

                    Kodak re-engineered the Staccato screen sets about a year and a half ago so, yes, it is no longer true.

                    best gordo

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Staccato Screening

                      > {quote:title=HW wrote:}{quote}
                      >
                      > Gordon - If we are proofing to Fogra 39, surely dont we have to print AM to get a constant match. If we want to print staccato, then would we have to create a internal proof profile for our own inhouse standard.
                      >
                      > We print lots of greeting cards, so the pastels are quite common, Im really thinking of moving back to AM.

                      It is not a question of AM/FM or XM. It is most likely, in your case, a question of dot sizes. As soon as one deviates from the conditions that go into a specification (as represented by your proof) then you are no longer "in spec" and as a result, you may (or may not) encounter color issues. E.g. if you go from 175 lpi (which I believe is Fogra) and instead use 200 or 240 lpi (AM or XM) because the dots are smaller, your color will be different. Also, if you're not printing on the same subsrate you will be out of spec and the color may be different. Whether the difference is acceptable or not is up to you and your customers.
                      If the color disconnect in pastels is related to the gamut difference that I suggested - keeping in mind that there may be other issues in your shop regarding proofing and press - then I think you have several choices.
                      1) Change your screening to the Fogra spec (175 lpi?)
                      2) Stay with Staccato and use a device link profile to contaminate single and two color screen tint builds in order to simulate the Fogra condition
                      3) Leverage the extra gamut and detail of Staccato by characterizing the Staccato gamut and creating proofs that reflect the actual presswork you will achieve.

                      IMHO option #3 is what I would do. Specifications like Fogra/GRACoL7/SWOP etc. are great when you need to have blind interchange of files, for example, for advertising submission to publications. However industry specs do not reflect the performance and extra value that you can deliver for specific customers - like greeting cards. BTW the two largest greeting card publishers in the US have been printing exclusively with Staccato for the past 6 or so years. Contact me off-forum and I can send you samples if you like.
                      As a printer, given the flexibility of today's digital workflows, there is no reason why you cannot have more than one target print condition (reflected in the proof) in your shop. Use Fogra when and if it's appropriate. Use your own target when it is appropriate. I don't see the business value in further commoditizing your presswork by printing like everyone else if you don't have to.

                      best, gordo

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Staccato Screening

                        Kodak re-engineered the Staccato screen sets about a year and a half ago so, yes, it is no longer true.

                        Gordon

                        have we had that upgrade ?

                        Peter

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Staccato Screening

                          i have no real answers for you on this but i have had a bit of experience printing staccato on a silicone release paper with texitran inks which had no slovent in them, we would proof the job and the customers would ammend untill happy, and when we got to press the pastels would be all over the place,the cusomers were very fussy and in the end we just got to weight on most jobs and then guessed the correct change in dot, after six months we were quite good at it , but there was that much return on the job it was't a major issue. i put it down to proofer unable to consistantly simulate trapping at low dot sizes but Gordo has sunk my battle ship on that one with the extended gamut.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Staccato Screening

                            OK........what about this one...................we use image control to maintain standards on press. In my opinion FM screens sharpen up alot more across the run, compared to AM screen ( i will prove this in the next couple of weeks). This can be a problem we customers are approving 'OK' sheets on image control.

                            Any thoughts Guys


                            Thanks all for your replies on the other points...........Gordon, i would be interested in seeing some samples..ill contact you.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Staccato Screening

                              Peter

                              We run ISO Sequence KCMY for all jobs

                              Ill double check the Membership issue


                              Dan

                              Comment

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