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  • Thinking of moving to a New Workflow and Need Input

    Our Kodak Prinergy server is due for an upgrade but we've given it a pause to consider other workflows going forward. We're trying to find a good solution to handle the mix of equipment we have as well as be able to handle 2 locations that are a few miles apart. Currently we don't have both locations connected together, but we are in the process of figuring that out. We've looked closely at Agfa Apogee and it seems to fit all of our requirements. We've also been using Agfa Asanti to handle our wide format equipment and really like some of the built in file fixing that is available. We are hoping to automate our processes a bit more and have been working on building a new MIS system using PrintVIS & Microsoft Dynamics. We're hoping to use XML to JDF to be able to drive automation between our MIS & Prepress. We plan on taking another look at Esko's solution as well but our biggest concern with Esko is the price tag. I would appreciate any other recommendations you have that we might not have considered yet.

    Here's a general overview of the our current equipment:
    40" 5-Color Heidelberg
    Saddle stitching bindery
    2x Agfa wide format flatbeds
    Dyesub,
    2x Kongsberg Routers
    2x Mutoh Inkjet Printersand (plus a cutter)
    2x digital presses (Xerox & Heidelberg)

  • #2
    Have you taken a look at Switch, either as a workflow in itself or as an enabler to help you automate other individual solutions?
    It's not an 'out of the box', but if you are building your own MIS you might consider building your own automation platform with it.
    Senior Product Manager
    Enfocus

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    • #3
      Originally posted by abc View Post
      Have you taken a look at Switch, either as a workflow in itself or as an enabler to help you automate other individual solutions?
      It's not an 'out of the box', but if you are building your own MIS you might consider building your own automation platform with it.
      That's an interesting thought abc, thanks for the input. We are looking for something that is a total workflow replacement as opposed to just one piece of the puzzle. We're trying to find a solution that bridges our wide-format, with our digital & offset and brings them together into one system.

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      • #4
        What version of Prinergy are you running? I am a big prinergy fan and believe running your listed equipment should be easy. After years of using it, I still learn ways improve its functions and create better work flows. Esko is next best solution.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by sveibl View Post
          What version of Prinergy are you running? I am a big prinergy fan and believe running your listed equipment should be easy. After years of using it, I still learn ways improve its functions and create better work flows. Esko is next best solution.
          We're running version 8.1. Prinergy is the only system I've ever used. I have some experience with Esko products via ArtiosCAD but not any of their prepress software. Apogee does provide some inciting file fixing capabilities as well as automation capabilities without having to purchase a separate license. As far as I'm aware (please correct me if I'm wrong), Prinergy can't fix file issues such as creating bleed or take large format files and then split them and add bleed to so they register from one board to the next. And if we wanted to do any automation within Prinergy we'd have to purchase a license for their Rules Based Automation.

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          • #6
            Take a look at Heidelberg Prinect! I have used Prinergy, Appogee, Screen - Like Heidelberg especially for the support - Easy workflow with the best imposition app - Signastation.

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            • #7
              As mentioned above, take a look at Prinect, Apogee, Prinergy and Switch as potential solutions, but run for the hills if anyone mentions Fuji XMF!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by akalaray View Post
                Take a look at Heidelberg Prinect! I have used Prinergy, Appogee, Screen - Like Heidelberg especially for the support - Easy workflow with the best imposition app - Signastation.
                Thanks for the suggestion Akalaray. Does the Heidelberg software have any solution for wide format? I don't see any mention of it from their website. We're trying to find something that can cover everything.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ksm1701 View Post
                  As mentioned above, take a look at Prinect, Apogee, Prinergy and Switch as potential solutions, but run for the hills if anyone mentions Fuji XMF!
                  From what I can tell, Switch isn't a full workflow replacement but more of an addin for automation. Is that correct?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Akaleus View Post

                    Thanks for the suggestion Akalaray. Does the Heidelberg software have any solution for wide format? I don't see any mention of it from their website. We're trying to find something that can cover everything.
                    The system is Hotfolder based - so it would output to any printer - we have it outputting to 4 epson printers - I can't think of why it can't drive a wide format device? Mark Tonkovich from Heidelberg is on this forum - Post to Heidelberg - He will answer your question(s)

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by akalaray View Post

                      The system is Hotfolder based - so it would output to any printer - we have it outputting to 4 epson printers - I can't think of why it can't drive a wide format device? Mark Tonkovich from Heidelberg is on this forum - Post to Heidelberg - He will answer your question(s)
                      Thanks Akalaray. I'm mainly thinking in terms of some of the file setup requirements needed for wide format such as being able to break a single piece of art apart in order to print on several boards, or being able to add specialized marks for grommets or router cutting. We use a Agfa's solution called Asanti for our wide format right now. I'm sure we could continue using it alongside the Heidelberg software and just have Asanti as a passthrough. But I was just curious if the Heidelberg software could do all of that as well. I'd rather have it all in one system than broken out into pieces from different providers.

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                      • #12
                        Prinergy can fix files. You will need a preflightplus option to do that. With it you'll have full featured callas preflight engine (well without variables, but still). And for everything else - rba. Imho it's easier, faster and cheaper than moving to different workflow

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                        • #13
                          Akaleus
                          What is the current business of your company? Commercial Print, Large Format, Web2Print?

                          Commercial print: Prinergy or Agfa

                          Large Format: Switch or Esko (in your case go by Esko because you already have the Kongsberg)

                          Web2Print: Switch + Pitstop or Callas, the point here is that Switch you have a world of possibilities with the script module

                          Also, another point to think about is what is the next steps of the company, maybe I just need to fix the older workflows and create new ones, because the connection between the locations supposes to be a job for the MIS.
                          Esko: Automation Engine, Artpro, Color Engine, Equinox, Packedge, Plato, Studio 3D, Visualizer.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bbertolani View Post
                            Akaleus
                            What is the current business of your company? Commercial Print, Large Format, Web2Print?

                            Commercial print: Prinergy or Agfa

                            Large Format: Switch or Esko (in your case go by Esko because you already have the Kongsberg)

                            Web2Print: Switch + Pitstop or Callas, the point here is that Switch you have a world of possibilities with the script module

                            Also, another point to think about is what is the next steps of the company, maybe I just need to fix the older workflows and create new ones, because the connection between the locations supposes to be a job for the MIS.
                            Thanks bbertolani,

                            We do commercial, large format, digital, packaging & web2print. So a little bit of everything. So far, it looks like every system has 1 or 2 specialties and can be customized to handle other things. I would say most of our work is either Commercial or Wideformat so those are the 2 solutions we're trying to bring together first. It seems like Apogee is the only solution that really has those 2 covered really well. Though Apogee is lacking on the packaging side, it can be used for it with their true-shape nesting feature. Though I wish it could actually use CAD files for the layout.

                            As for the future, we have 2 locations and we're wanting to connect both locations together using a VPN so that we're both storing jobs in the same location as well as handling files the same way.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Akaleus View Post

                              Thanks bbertolani,

                              We do commercial, large format, digital, packaging & web2print. So a little bit of everything. So far, it looks like every system has 1 or 2 specialties and can be customized to handle other things. I would say most of our work is either Commercial or Wideformat so those are the 2 solutions we're trying to bring together first. It seems like Apogee is the only solution that really has those 2 covered really well. Though Apogee is lacking on the packaging side, it can be used for it with their true-shape nesting feature. Though I wish it could actually use CAD files for the layout.

                              As for the future, we have 2 locations and we're wanting to connect both locations together using a VPN so that we're both storing jobs in the same location as well as handling files the same way.
                              I don't know Apogee pretty well but when my company bought another company about 1 year ago, in this company they were using Apogee and after see whats Switch can do they shut down Apogee. The good part of Apogeeis a solution with everything inside but this doesn't mean that everything inside fit in your needs, while in Switch you will need to integrate with others solutions, same situation for Esko that IMHO is good for labels, packing, wide format but for Commercial Print is not the right choice.
                              Esko: Automation Engine, Artpro, Color Engine, Equinox, Packedge, Plato, Studio 3D, Visualizer.

                              Comment

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