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Quark 7 is a lying piece of crap software when it comes to RGB color

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  • Quark 7 is a lying piece of crap software when it comes to RGB color

    I hate Quark. I beta tested Quark 7, let them know the issues, and they have gone through 7.0, 7.1, 7.2, and 7.3 without fixing these issues.

    For instance, one issue I find egregious is the fact Quark is lying to their customers with their previews.
    If I place an untagged RGB in Quark 7 (or have one in an older legacy document I open), the default Proof Output is None.
    In Quark 7's Color Manager settings, whether it is set to QuarkXPress Emulate Legacy, QuarkXPress 7.0 Default, or a custom setup, when using Proof Output None, Quark doesn't really show what I'll get from my output. If I choose Proof Output of CMYK or CMYK and Spot, THEN AND ONLY THEN do I get what color I'm really going to get.

    Quark by default is showing customers what their untagged RGB should probably likely look like (by displaying the untagged RGB with the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile when using the Proof Output: None, although no where in their settings do they have the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile, so we know it's not going to actually be used for output), but Quark is not showing the customer what it's really going to look like until ANOTHER Proof Output is chosen.

    Let's prove it shall we?:
    Open an sRGB IEC61966-2.1 image in Photoshop and save a copy, with the name ending in TEST, on your desktop, and don't include the profile when saving.
    Now make a new Quark 7 document, make a picture box, get picture, and link to the TEST image on your desktop. Now if you have Quark and Photoshop open side-by-side, one can see clearly that they both look the same (showing that Quark, like Photoshop, is using the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile to preview the untagged RGB). Why? Because None is chosen in Proof Output in QX7.
    Now with Proof Output staying at None, I want you to change the Color Manager Source Setup to QuarkXPress Emulate Legacy and click OK. Did the picture change? No. Go back and change the Color Manager Source Setup to QuarkXPress 7.0 Default and click OK. Did the picture change? No. Go back and change the Color Manager Source Setup to a new custom setup and click OK. Did the picture change? No. Now we know the untagged RGB should be assuming the default RGB profile being used, and with each setup the default RGB profile is being changed. Then why isn't the Quark preview changing? It should be. But it isn't. It's lying and saying that Quark is using the sRGB profile when it is not really going to use it for any output.
    Now we're going to show that by changing Proof Output to CMYK and Spot, we do get what Quark is really going to output, and it's not what it should look like (it really should be assigning the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile but Quark doesn't do this for untagged RGB).
    Now we're going to change the Proof Output to CMYK and Spot, and going to show that unlike before, when we change the Source Setup, the RGB image changes appearance.
    Now with Proof Output staying at CMYK and Spot, I want you to change the Color Manager Source Setup to QuarkXPress Emulate Legacy and click OK. Did the picture change? Yes. Go back and change the Color Manager Source Setup to QuarkXPress 7.0 Default and click OK. Did the picture change? Yes. Go back and change the Color Manager Source Setup to a new custom setup and click OK. Did the picture change? Yes.
    Now again, we know the untagged RGB should be assuming the default RGB profile being used, and with each setup the default RGB profile is being changed. Now (and only now) do we see that the preview is really correct and accurate and not lying to us.

    So what I do until Quark actually starts listening and fixing this crap, I open the Quark 7 document I receive (I still do legacy jobs in Quark 6.5) and go to Color Manager. If the Proof Output is set to None, I know my customer was viewing their untagged RGB as using the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile, and so that is what I use (either via setting it in Profile Information window in Quark 7, or doing the conversion in Photoshop).

    When is Quark going to fix this crap? I let them know when Quark 7 was still in beta about this problem, and they didn't fix it before they released it, they didn't fix it in 7.1, 7.2, or 7.3. I'm almost to the point of asking my boss to charge double for taking in Quark jobs. It's bad enough they are many years behind InDesign (they haven't even gotten to the point InDesign was at 2.0 - four full versions ago).

    This crap makes me mad! Makes me want to physically slap some Quark folk around (and it's really bad when you want to beat somebody).

    Am I the only one that sees and has said anything to Quark repeatedly about this?

    Don

  • #2
    Re: Quark 7 is a lying piece of crap software when it comes to RGB color

    Quark sucks. I hate it! Have your customers send in PDFs

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Quark 7 is a lying piece of crap software when it comes to RGB color

      Unfortunately, if I do it myself, the pictures look like what they were intended to (because I realize they are proofing with Proof Output of None and so are seeing sRGB IEC61966-2.1 assigned to untagged RGB picture, so that's the profile I manually use as source to convert to destination CMYK). If my customer sent a PDF, the pictures wouldn't look correct on output (because Quark is actually using a different profile than what is previewed in Quark with Proof Output as None, and is using the different profile - whether legacy or new RGB profile - as source to convert to destination CMYK).

      Quark is screwing us all.

      Don

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Quark 7 is a lying piece of crap software when it comes to RGB color

        On Oct 12, 2007, at 1:28 PM, PrintPlanet <discuss@printplanet.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Quark 7 is a lying piece of crap software when it comes to RGB color

          Rick,

          The only thing that came in your reply was:
          "On Oct 12, 2007, at 1:28 PM, PrintPlanet <discuss@printplanet.com"

          Don

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Quark 7 is a lying piece of crap software when it comes to RGB color

            *I am with you on that.* I feel that we are not alone either. I work as a technical support within prepress. I have seen a lot of problems with quark 7. Why have a Beta out and ask for feed back, when in the end you are just going to push the production and not fix any of the problems that quark has been made aware of? Multi upgrades that seem to fix very little and in the process create bigger problems someplace else.

            Our biggest problem at this time is reflow. We have 4 versions of Q7 - 7.3, 7.2, 7.1, and 7.02. When a customer sends in there files they will flow different on different versions. I make sure that all systems we use are roughly the same. No fonts on the hard drive other then the required system fonts. We use suitcase XII. Same customer fonts are loaded each time. The latest update was to take care of this problem. BUT NO!!! We have to bounce around on different Macs to see what version will actually work with the file. At first I thought that I had to use the same version as the customer. I would drop the Q7 file on text edit to find what version I needed to open it in. Go to that Mac, and cross my fingers It would only work. Less then half the time it did. I am just baffled, and frustrated.

            **I would love to tell our customers that they need to jump off the lily pad and swim over to the Adobe boat.*

            +Paula+

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            • #7
              Re: Quark 7 is a lying piece of crap software when it comes to RGB color

              Paula,

              Yes they supposedly fixed rewrap problems in 7.3 update. However, when I talked to them about reflow problems last, tech support said that I could change Quark 7 preferences in Color Manager to use 'QuarkXPress Emulate Legacy' under Source Setup to get the same type wrap as in Quark 6.5. A lot of good that info does. I guess I could set it up that way before I decided to open a Quark 6.5 doc in 7 (but it's set to that automatically when opening a legacy job, so no point to manually do it). However, because of Quark changing PANTONE CMYK builds for PANTONE solid coated from Quark 6.5 to 7, I always use Quark 6.5 to do older jobs. I only use Quark 7 for jobs built in 7.

              Also, I don't trust what Text Edit says concerning Quark version (really all I always see when I open a Quark doc in TextEdit is MMXPR3 - not really useful information). There's no way to tell what version of 7 a document was last saved with as far as I can tell.

              Isn't this gonna be much more fun when we're forced to use Quark 7 on Intel Macs because PPC Macs are gone or can't run the latest Mac OS?
              I have a feeling I'll be using Rosetta (or if not available at the time, SheepShaver) to run Quark 6.5 for a long while.
              I honestly see why prepress people always want to keep the job, reprint of the job, in the same Quark it was done with. I use Quark 6.5 to do all my re-print jobs (had Quark 5 when I got here, and 6.5 has same PANTONE library), but I see this is gonna stop with 6.5. 7 is just too different and screws up too much legacy stuff (PANTONE colors for one, which totally sucks and I don't see why they are not being held accountable to their users for this - where is the outcry from the printers or anybody else?)

              Don

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Quark 7 is a lying piece of crap software when it comes to RGB color

                So now you have four versions of Quark 7 to keep up with? That's crazy. I'd try my best to stick with the latest one and update any older re-prints of Quark 7 docs to the latest version of 7 and re-check type wrap. Nothing easy about it, but are we supposed to have to keep four versions the same program (of which we can't tell which one actually saved the doc last)? Ridiculous. If I were you, I would at least open Quark 6.5 docs in 6.5 (go File > Open in Quark 6.5, and select the document in question. It will tell you what version the doc is/was last saved, and what version it was created in) and only have to deal with Quark 7 docs in Quark 7. Least amount of possible problems that way (other than moving all customers to Adobe InDesign).

                Don

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Quark 7 is a lying piece of crap software when it comes to RGB color

                  Wasn't there a post here regarding Quark to Indesign converters???? :-)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Quark 7 is a lying piece of crap software when it comes to RGB color

                    Don,



                    We found a way in text edit to find what version of Q7 the file is. All you have to do is a find. Type in QXP in the find window of text edit, and click next. It will take you to the first case of QXP within text edit. If you do not see what version next to the first QXP find, just click on the find button till you see it.

                    If after all that and you still do not find what version, you may have to type in QuarkXpress 7 in the find field, and click next. We have found that earlier versions of IQ (7.0 - 7.02) you will have to type in QuarkXpress 7. All other versions you will find with QXP. It is a lot of work, but it is the only way to make sure you are opening the document in the proper version. Within text edit we also verify what platform the document is. For mac in the header you will see MMXPR3 and for pc you will see IIXPR3. This is a great help, seeing that you can now use pc based fonts on a mac, and that OTF fonts are universal.**





                    I never open Quark 6 files in Quark 7. That is just asking for trouble. If I was to open files in another version, I think I would open Q7 files in Q6. That is if that file had no transparency effects



                    Troubleshooting with customers trying to send us in PDF files has been a lot of work with Quark. Some versions of 7.3 you can export PDF files directly, others need to be distilled to get the fonts to print. I would like to tell all our Quark customers to update to 7.3, so we only have to have one version on our site. But with the issues 7.3 has, that is just not realistic.



                    As for color handling in Quark. It seem that they really messed up something that they had going on in earlier versions. Once Upon a Time Quark was a leader. Now they are just loosing there fan base. I see more and more customers switching to InDesign. They would rather choose an application that has a huge learning curve for them, then stay with Quack!!!





                    Quark has been called with numerous complaints that just get no resolve. At times they would tell us that they would call back after troubleshooting. No return call from Quark was ever received.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Quark 7 is a lying piece of crap software when it comes to RGB color

                      I said it a few years ago in an interview; Quark is dead....

                      I can't get Quark to output different RGB's in the same document or LAB. How hard is that?
                      Matt Beals
                      The views expressed here are my own personal views and are not those of my employer.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Quark 7 is a lying piece of crap software when it comes to RGB color

                        Paula,

                        That's great info on finding the version and platform with TextEdit! Everybody who deals with Quark 7 needs to know that info. Wish it were more readily available. Thank you.

                        Actually the learning curve for InDesign is short. If they've used Illustrator or Photoshop, they can get there pretty quickly. Placing native .ai and .psd files, Overprint/Separation Preview, and correct/consistent output made me a switcher (although I still have to use Quark sometimes for those clients that send in Quark files).

                        Matt is right. Quark is dead. They just don't know it yet I guess. They should give the money back to the shareholders and shut down. He's right. Why make it impossible to get PDF 1.4 with live transparency, multiple RGB profiles (all that are used), and Lab values for PANTONE colors? They're cutting their own throat. PDF 1.4 that is as editable in PDF (with program like Neo) as in the native app is the future of prepress.

                        Don

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Quark 7 is a lying piece of crap software when it comes to RGB color

                          Hi Paula,
                          If you have text re-flow problems, are you certain it's not a font loading issue or cache problem? I have been able to open various Quark version files in 7 consistently whenever I clear out app/system cache.

                          Honestly, I have been seeing a mixed bag of issues in both Quark and InDesign, so I'll hold my judgment until more evidence is out. Also it's hard to convince old school designers to leave Quark. It's their comfort zone and they'll hang on to it until Quark is really dead.

                          Edited by: Tech on Nov 6, 2007 4:42 PM

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Quark 7 is a lying piece of crap software when it comes to RGB color

                            I have cleaned out the cache files on every machine before we start a new project for the customer. We also use a "font cache cleaner script" just to be sure. I do agree that Both applications have their own issues. It just seems that InDesign has less.

                            Paula

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Quark 7 is a lying piece of crap software when it comes to RGB color

                              Tech,



                              After reading your post, I thought I would do some poking around on the Hard Drive. I stumbled across a *Jaws folder within the* *User/Library/Preferences/Quark/Quarkxpress 7.0.* I originally thought Quark did away with this in Q7. With in the *Jaws* folder is a *FontStub* folder, and within that is a folder called *WesternFonts*. WesternFonts is the one that needs to be trashed. Just make sure that you *quit Quark before you do this, and have no fonts loaded in Suitcase.*



                              So far this seems to have worked. Only time will tell.



                              Paula

                              Comment

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