Preflight PDF if there are RGB-images without any ICC-profile

[roel78]

Hi,

I would like to preflight PDF-documents if there any RGB-images without any embedded ICC-profile. I only want to check RGB-images and not the CMYK's. I just want this to be a warning so I can contact the supplier of the PDF-document. I don't want to assign any profile to the images.

Is this possible in Acrobat Pro 9 or Pitstop 08?

It is possible to check if there are any untagged images, but I just want to check the RGB ones.

It also would be nice if it was possible to preflight InDesign documents if there were any untagged RGB-images used. My intension is to create an InDesign-script to preform a preflight.

Thanks in advance.

Roel

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

InDesign CS4?

 

[roel78]

Yes, InDesign CS4.

(I'm aware of the new preflight-function.)

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

You can build a preflight in Acrobat containing /testing conditions RGB and Contains ICC.
I normally just go on PDF preview, note that untagged RGB is almost the same as DeviceRGB.

In CS4 it is a bit back to front. You can test for RGB objects. You can test for ICC profiles, but you can Flagg for ICC but not for missing ICC in RGB. I don't know who consulted for the preflight, but there it is very strange in that there is not a black list or white list option on the condition, just the test.
I would have thought that it would have been smarter to have a preflight that is compatible with Acrobat Preflight, so that you could create a preflight action and choose wich software to run it in.

I would have thought that It should flagg for ICC profiles in CMYK but warn for missing profiles in RGB? Is there anyone ever (when creating for print) who wants a missing profile in RGB?

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

As I post I realise the best way in InDesign is to go to the links pannel and show the ICC column. That way you can sort by ICC and find those that have no profile.

Untagged RGB will be labeled "Document RGB"

 

[mattbeals]

Sure, it's easy to identify ICC tagged RGB and untagged RGB, tagged RGB or UNtagged RGB with Callas pdfToolbox, Enfocus PitStop and Acrobat Pro preflight.

It is possible with PitStop to assign device RGB images with a specific profile.
It is possible to remove ICC profiles from RGB images.
When converting to CMYK you can specify what assumed profile to use when converting.

 

[michaelejahn]

@ Roel78

As it seems that what you are asking here is -- RGB-images without any embedded ICC-profile -- while in InDesign. No matter is you did this in InDesign or after the document was converted into a PDF - once you have a pick list, what is your intent at that moment? Would you assign a single profile ? WOuld you simply tell the author to go back and fix this ? I ask these questions as there are cases in some workflows where profiles are stripped and replaced, other workflows where they are dynamically assigned (Such as in ALWAN) while they are in PDF form...

 

[roel78]

I would like to tell the author if there's any untagged RGB-image in his PDF. I don't want to make an assumption and assign any profile. I want to prevent that the printed result becomes a disappointment for the author.

In Acrobat Pro there is a preflight-check called 'Uses ICCbased CMYK'. This is exactly what I want, but then for RGB. I don't find such a check in Acrobat or PitStop.

In InDesign I think I can create a javascript that searchs for any image which has an ICC profile that is 'Document RGB'.

 

[uwitberg]

Hi Roel78,

untagged RGB should be DeviceRGB and there does exist a check for the presence of DevRGB. In Acrobat Preflight, create a new profile, then a new check and search in Property for "rgb". You should get 4 entries, one being "Is DeviceRGB".
Add that and set it to "is true".
Save your profile and test it.

Perhaps this helps,
Ulf

 

[roel78]

Thanks for all the replies!

Ulf, thanks for your help. The check for the presence of DeviceRGB works fine for me. I didn't know that an untagged RGB always was defined as a DeviceRGB in a PDF (when there wasn't any profile assigned to it).

 

[the_brain]

Roel,

FYI

In PitStop 08 you can create an Action List that will trigger this as well...

Select all
Select images
Select by color space (DeviceRGB)
AND
log selection

cheers,
Bert

 

[rich apollo]

A case of inconsistent nomenclature. Why does PDF (or Acrobat) have DeviceRGB or CalibratedCMYK instead of tagged and untagged?

 

[leonardr]

A case of inconsistent nomenclature. Why does PDF (or Acrobat) have DeviceRGB or CalibratedCMYK instead of tagged and untagged?

PDF supports 11 different ways to represent color that have evolved over the 15+ years that the standard has been in existence PLUS the 10+ years that proceeded it with Postscript. In other words, Color has come a long way .

Just to clarify, the colorspaces are:
DeviceGray, DeviceRGB and DeviceCMYK - these are all "untagged" AND device dependent
CalGray, CalRGB and Lab - these are "untagged' _BUT_ device independent
ICCBased - this is tagged AND device independent

in addition, there are the various special colorspaces
Indexed
Separation (aka Spot colors)
DeviceN

and then
Pattern - which is treated as a colorspace in PDF

 

[Al Ferrari]

Hi Leonard,

What is the difference between Separation (aka Spot colors) and DeviceN color spaces?

Thanks,

Al

 

[roel78]

The preflight I have created is not perfect. The preflight contains a check on DeviceRGB images that will give a warning. But the preflight also contains a fix that will convertion all RGB images to destination CMYK.

When I use this combination in a preflight, Acrobat will do the conversion, but gives no warning when a DeviceRGB is used. Acrobat will use the assigned profile that is set in the fix.

The reason I want this warning AND fix: I want to contact the author when he used an untagged RGB and I want to give him an example when I assign the Adobe98-profile. (In most cases the author can't find out what was the original profile.)

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

I would reason that untagged is sRGB for the reason that the only occurences of untagged RGB is www, and that is sRGB, but that is my opinion. Also windows, HP and consumer devices assume sRGB.

 

[rich apollo]

Leonard,
I'm confused.

DeviceRGB and CalRGB are both untagged. One is device dependent and one is device independent. How is that distinction made without an ICC profile? As I understand it: device dependent RGB is in an RGB output-device colorspace - device independent RGB would be in a RGB working-space colorspace like sRGB.

CMYK is always device dependent, so I understand that.

I didn't realize that grayscale could be device independent. Again, without ICC profiles, how is the distinction made between DeviceGray and CalGray?

Being ICCbased shouldn't mean that the color is device dependent.

 

[romeljmendez]

cmyk to cmyk convertion

cmyk to cmyk convertion

Anyone,

I'm tying to convert cmyk files from the out source file to our cmyk profile. But I notice when I converted it to our working space or embeded it, the single black channels became 4 colors or converted into rich black.

How can I convert it without affecting the purity of the black channels?

 

[romeljmendez]

icc profile

 

[mattbeals]

You can't just use an ICC profile. You need a device link profile for this. Callas pdfToolbox plug-in, stand alone, Server, CLI and SDK can properly apply the device link profile. What space are you converting from and what is the destination space?

Device link profiles allow you map CMYK from one space into another while preserving the black plate. A standard ICC conversion from CMYK to CMYK will not preserve the black plate.

It's not hard to get a good device link profile. Send me the PDF and let's see what's going on. Or in the least send me the ICC profiles.