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  • Training

    I am very interested to know what is happening with training and how u get new entrants into the industry. In the Uk we seem to have stopped training youngsters about 20 years ago - so have an ageing workforce.
    Peter

  • #2
    Re: Training

    I'm here in Canada, in our prepress department of 15 people everyone is over the age of 40. We used to get co-op students in, but haven't had any for a couple of years now. I presume they have more interesting and lucrative options than getting into a declining industry. Printing and pre-press used to be a well-paid craft, but now with automation, pdfs, oversaturation of the market with cylinders, low profit margins, the move to digital, wages are starting to decline, and it seems pretty gloomy. Nobody in here would recommend to their kids to get into this.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Training

      I'm in Memphis, Tennessee in the U.S., and would have to agree wholeheartedly. I was the youngest person in the color separation house I started at after graduating college, went from about $9/hr to $23/hr while getting my journeyman. After they closed (after almost 80 years in business), I went to work for a local printer. Had to take a $5/hr cut on pay to $18/hr just to get a job in 2002 after being out of work 3 months. Needless to say, I haven't made it back to $23/hr and don't expect to. So I passed my prime before I even turned 30. This is why I'm in the process of moving to another career, while staying in this one only until I get the other up and running and making money to sustain myself and my wife. When you add the fact that the U.S. dollar has decreased in value 40% since 2000, you can see that I'm making about at or less than I did soon after getting into this business.

      Don

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      • #4
        Re: Training

        Also in Canada. Issues for youth as I see them are:

        1. Copious amount of material to learn or re-learn. Too many flavors of software etc.
        Trench workers have to make the major decisions about live jobs.
        2. Prepress is evolving so fast that few are properly keeping up with it. Most managers are now too old to be in touch with the reality of print today and have not kept up-to-date and do not know it; in fact, will vehemently deny this fact. Companies have no clue thinking the work will just be produced without investment for the future.
        3. Pay for semi-skilled (those coming out of school) is low and has little future for advancement. Only those that will study away from work will move up and the number of positions are fewer by the technological upgrade.
        4. High School grads can't spell, make an orderly list of instructions, do simple arithmetic, plan and re-schedule at a moment's notice, take continuous interruption nor communicate well. A university degree is now mandatory to guarantee the shop basic skills such as these and then the company has to work them up from there.
        6. Youth in overseas countries do have the work ethic and will become the best resource pool for domestic jobs but how long with they work for 25 grand without a raise?
        7. Highly skilled people can nearly name their price and this will become more of an issue once more of the old retire. The demand will become massive in the next five years. What is needed is a change in corporate thinking but it will only happen once the pay for those few skilled workers that are left gets too high in their corporate minds. No amount of government intervention will work although I am shocked at the poor education a high school graduate has these days and that can be fixed by government but it will take a generation or two.

        John

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        • #5
          Re: Training

          I have a set of CDs from a few years back that were training courses on different prepress applications, and they where pretty good. I just looked up their web site that was on the back, and although the name has changed it seems as if they have the same courses available. I can't say if they are any good or not, but it might be worth looking into. The web site is: http://itsolut.com/

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Training

            John,

            When schools in America quit teacing students about politically correct issues (that most parents don't want their kids being taught about/indoctrinated with anyways), and start teaching the basics that our parents actually learned, then we can have smarter kids. Don't expect much, and they will meet the low expectation. Too much is about what someone feels these days.

            Teacher: "Johnny, what does 2+2 equal?"
            Johnny: "Five"
            Teacher: "That's right Johnny! If it makes you feel good that it equals five, it equals five. There are no right or wrong answers."

            You think I'm kidding, but this is about the way it goes. Competition is a bad word these days. What you feel is more important than whether you are right. Critical thinking is not in this generation. They have been indoctrinated to NOT think and to NOT ask questions and to NOT question authority. Pretty well sitting ducks for a Hitler-type to come along. America's children are being dumbed dow PURPOSELY, and it's high time parents start grasping what is going on. Unlike the Bible which tells us to test all things and hold to that which is good, the humanist doesn't want people to think critically, because they want to turn America away from God and truth (and mostly have).

            Look into the Humanist Manifesto (parts I, II, and III), and you'll see what plans they had (and how far they've come in doing what they set out to do).

            I know many of you will protest that I am bringing God into this, where He doesn't belong. I say He does belong, just as Truth has a place. Throw out God, throw out Truth, then what are you left with? What we have now. You can't expect to tell kids they come from animals, that their life has no meaning, that their is no such thing as right or wrong, and expect them to care about values whatsoever. Treat them as animals, tell them they are just animals, and you get the rise in school shootings we have had. There is a connection, whether the majority wants to keep its head in the sand and pretend its not going on or not. If I get kicked off these forums for saying this, that's OK too. The truth will still remain the truth whether someone stands up for it or not.

            Don

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Training

              I really don't know what are you complaining about??
              Don't you know that we are entering conceptual age?
              We are all suppose to wear wrapped sheets around us, sing and dance, enjoy the life while the rest of the world is working for us.

              This is called "lights out production" and "automation" or push the button and bunch of oversea workers start working on your job.

              I am training my writing skills and soon getting into calligraphy.
              I love music and know how to play couple of instruments.

              Seriously, this is how I see what the big ones are predicting, I hope they are right since I like that prediction, as long as it comes through and I am not hungry on the street.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Training

                I believe that is all about opportunities and individuals.
                Here in Australia the mining and building industries are booming.
                A young person can choose a better way to earn money just training in one of these industries.
                I don't believe that the printing industry is a declining one, it is just changing.
                It is not paid the way it used to be paid but in my opinion, when the old dinosaurs like us will slowly disappear, there will be some changes.
                It is indeed more IT than color sep now but you still need the experience on the light table to make things work.
                Cheers

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Training

                  "When you add the fact that the U.S. dollar has decreased in value 40% since 2000"

                  Well, if I had a million U.S. dollars in 2000 vs. now, I could buy today with a million what I could buy in 2000 for $600,000.

                  Could also put it another way and say that the U.S. dollar has decreased in value (purchasing power) 96% since 1960. No gold standard. Looking at two graphs, one of money supply, and the other of purchasing power. They look like an almost exact inverse. The money supply went from less than one trillion to 10 trillion. The dollar went from about $0.80 purchasing power to less than half of one cent purchasing power (yes it had already lost $0.20 purchasing power by 1960, and almost the rest since 1960).

                  In other words, it's not just your imagination that money's getting tighter. That you can't buy today what you used to could if you're in the U.S.

                  In 2000, U.S. investments to foreign countries was at about 8%. Now it's over 75%. Is it a surprise? No. Who wants to hold investment that's decreasing in value as quickly as the U.S. dollar has?

                  Meanwhile, China's equivalent to the U.S. dollar grew 80% last year alone. Guess where I'm thinking about investing?

                  Don

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Training

                    > The web site is: http://itsolut.com/

                    Whitaker,

                    I did some of those courses. Yes, they were better than nothing; but I wouldn't recommend them above a good book.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Training

                      Whitaker,
                      Wow - I can't believe you still have the CDs. I work for the company you mentioned, and we stopped making the CDs in 2000. We took all training online at that time.

                      The online training courses include pre-and post-tests, allowing a person to test out of what they already know, so we've come a long way since then, but I'm glad to hear the CDs are still around out there.
                      Debbie Goodman
                      Debbie Goodman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Training

                        Is there anybody who knows how to print in the uk who still has the enthusiasm to show young people how to print ? In my experience the answer to that is no. My dad taught me and he did 7 year`s at collage to learn print, i did a 2 year nvq. What did I learn from my NVQ? How to index pages. The wage for a printer in the last 10 years has dropped big time. £500 a week was minimum 4 col 74 money with good printers on maby 700- 800 now most places pay 325-375 and they don't care how good a printer you are as long as its "good enough" to sell, add that to inflation and the average cost of a house and 375 isn't a lot for the hassle. Most of the printer i have worked with now fit Kitchens, install windows or paint and decorate, the uk industry has been ignorant to the fact that experienced printers demand good money and if they cant get it printing they do it another way.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Training

                          Jiminey Crickets you guys are depressing me.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Training

                            When I graduated from University in 1971 we used to joke about how the other kids who went to tradeschool instead (carpentry, plumbing, electrical) got all the well paying jobs while we were getting our degrees. Almost 40 years later, I can't even get a carpenter to build a bookcase - they can't be bothered - too many jobs available and not enough trades people to fill the need.

                            One issue that educational institutions have difficulty with, especially in regards to graphic arts education, is how does one create a curriculum to educate/prepare people for jobs that may longer be in existence once they graduate? Or for jobs that may have required well paid skills that originally attracted the student to that career path that, once they graduate, have become either low-value/paid positions or eliminated by an automated system.


                            best, gordo

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Training

                              Hey less people in the field means more money for me right.

                              W00T!

                              Comment

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