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Heidelberg Anicolour (???)

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  • Heidelberg Anicolour (???)

    This press is frightening.its a SM 52 I saw a 4 colour and coater

    The ink ductroller , plate inker, plate cylinder and impression cylinder are all the same size.

    The ink roller has furrows in it - into which the ink is forced and the plate inker which is rubber takes all the ink off the ink roller. THe plate is damped using conventional; damping. The plate roller inks the plate.

    SIMPLE
    no ink keys - and after about 10 sheets you in colour and ready to go.--

    ================================================== =====

    THis is very real - to alter colour you change the heat of the ink duct roller and can vary the black from 1.6 - 2 density.

    ================================================== ====================================

    From what I see the only thing that is stopping them putting it on bigger presses is controlling the heat of the ink roller

    If they can put it on a 40" 10 colour or a web press - imagine the residule value off conventional pressses

    Peter

  • #2
    Re: Heidelberg Anicolour (???)

    kba has a couple of presses in the 20 x 29 size using a similar design. the karat 74 (which is a DI and is waterless) and a Rapida 74 G (which is also waterless)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Heidelberg Anicolour (???)

      >From what I see the only thing that is stopping them putting it on bigger presses is controlling the heat of the ink roller

      This is a simple engineering problem of scaling up, and no impediment at all in my view. I suspect that all press manufacturers are waiting to see how well the market accepts these new presses before they re tool their production lines. KBA together with Metronic led the way with the 74 Karat, the 52 Genius, and the 74 G presses, calling the new inking system "Gravuflow". Heidelberg took a step backwards with Anicolor in retaining dampening, evidently to allay the concerns of printers still dubious about waterless.

      When the 74 Karat first appeared, now several years ago, I thought this press design would take the market by storm. But this has yet to happen, prooving what a conservative lot printers are.

      Al

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      • #4
        Re: Heidelberg Anicolour (???)

        This leap froward is what printing has needed for years, the design of a standard inking unit serves the purpose but its a crude way of adding accurate ink across the width of the press. The reason i say this is if you set a ink duct close to the profile of a job as possible by the time it has passes through the oscillaters and down to the forms the profile has flattened somewhat which leads to unwanted overinking on certin jobs. In therory i think this system could make litho presses ultra efficient but i would like to see how dependent temperature is and to what degree a 1-2 degrees difference makes in real world conditions in a pressroom, I would also like to see how critical the ink rheology needs to be and how much hassle is involved in keeping the ink within a reasonable tollerance. Most of us have seen a press demonstrated in virtual lab conditions with the best consumables and operaters but lets face it most presses would go into an existing unit with no temp/humudity control the cheapest consumbales and the cheapest operator. That said i look forward to this and hope it does scale up with no major problems.

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        • #5
          Re: Heidelberg Anicolour (???)

          I was talking to the heidelberg guys at the show. it is very interesting. I asked them about running uncoated. they said It ran fine, but not as well as conventional. but if your running good quality coated all day like taylor corp. then its a no brainer. I think taylor order 5 - 5 color anicolor machines. estimated price $1.3 million each.
          I hope I can buy a used one some day.

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          • #6
            Re: Heidelberg Anicolour (???)

            Paul
            Ye of little faith - when you see me order one believe it !!!!!!!!!!!

            Peter

            4 colour and coater cost £400k (thats about $800k dollars

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            • #7
              Re: Heidelberg Anicolour (???)

              Rob

              Because of the problems with PMS colours - only af ew PMS colours can be run - IMO buying a 5 colour is a waste of money - much better to buy 4 + Coat -

              peter

              Heidelberg have a 5 colour in their showroom in London - to try and see how they can improve the PMS situation >

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              • #8
                Re: Heidelberg Anicolour (???)

                I don't see any mention of PANTONE colors in Rob's post. Are you sure you are replying to the correct post?

                Al

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                • #9
                  Re: Heidelberg Anicolour (???)

                  Al - it was because he mentioned someone bought 5 colour presses - which I assumed was for a 5th colour. My opinion is that a coater is a no brainer from short run work - otherwise u spend all your time waiting for the inbk to dry

                  Peter

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                  • #10
                    Re: Heidelberg Anicolour (???)

                    Peter,
                    on the Heidelberg web site is a report on the SM 52 5-color machine at a Swiss printing plant.
                    The 5-th color is just for spot colors.
                    The SM 52 differs from Karat and other Anilox Waterless offset machines.
                    The Anicolor inks and plates are regular commercially available plates.
                    For commercial printers a nice solution, they can mix plates in their workflow.
                    SM 52 Anilox requires fully harmonized or standardized plates,
                    No individual page width or image width correction anymore.
                    Just print.
                    Henk
                    P.S.: While the inks are (more) temperature sensitive, the spotcolors have to
                    have a temperature sensitivity identical to the regular CMYK inks in the machine.
                    Ink producers have to deliver PMS colors with the same "density correction" (means temperature correction)
                    as the other four CMYK inks.

                    Edited by: Henk Gianotten on Jan 20, 2008 1:39 AM

                    Edited by: Henk Gianotten on Jan 20, 2008 1:44 AM

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                    • #11
                      Re: Heidelberg Anicolour (???)

                      Hi Al,

                      No problem to scale up. The anilox offset with water has been used on newspaper presses, especially in the 1990's. I would call that scaled up. They had limited success and had problems with emulsification. KBA's problem with emulsification moved them to try waterless.

                      Erik

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                      • #12
                        Re: Heidelberg Anicolour (???)

                        Henk

                        I was told that only about 20 PMS colours work at the moment so who knows.

                        What I didnt ask is what happends when the plate inker has a flat spot - or is that just a wrap around blanket

                        Peter

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                        • #13
                          Re: Heidelberg Anicolour (???)

                          Scaling up a waterless ink system seems less difficult than a Anicolor system, I was told.
                          You already mentioned that KBA now uses only waterless plates for this wide press application.
                          Henk

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Heidelberg Anicolour (???)

                            The ink producers can make more colors for this application. However, due to the temperature sensitivity a certain minimum amount of ink has to be produced.
                            I assume that for corporate spotcolors one can order large amounts of ink.
                            As soon as more temperature sensitive inks are ordered and ink producers get more experience, the selection of colors will be extended.
                            It depends, I think, on the number of Anicolor 5 & 10 color machines in the field. Right now, that's limited.
                            The Heidelberg dealers are taking orders and pilot customers confirm the successes of these machines.
                            The order and run structure is important.
                            Regarding your question on the wrap around blanket, please contact the guys in Brentford.
                            Regards, Henk

                            Edited by: Henk Gianotten on Jan 21, 2008 1:09 AM

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Heidelberg Anicolour (???)

                              I only meant that scaling up was possible because it has already been done. I did not mean to imply that it was a good solution. For newspaper presses, both keyless water and keyless waterless have problems. They are not the press designs for the future.

                              From what I have seen, the Anicolor prints well but it also is not a press design for the future and I suspect that it will be like DI and not become wide spread. It will have some small niche market where it will meet the needs of limited production requirements.

                              Comment

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