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  • Which press and why

    Ryobi 3302
    hamada 234
    or a qm46

    Looking to get into process work. Have a large color copier but the run lenghts are getting crazy. Sending it out isnt an option.

    Thoughts on which one, and why would be great.

    Have a printware poly plate maker so plates arent a problem.

    Thanks!

  • #2
    Re: Which press and why

    I would get a old 4 colour gto 46. seriously, it is better to go with a older 4 col machine, than a new 2 colour that has little or no more automation. Thats what i think anyway
    good luck

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    • #3
      Re: Which press and why

      Out of the presses I have mentioned. (3302, 234, or 46) which would you choose. I know there are many other presses that might be a better fit, but that isnt option. The options are 3302, 234 or 46. Thanks.

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      • #4
        Re: Which press and why

        well, if your wanting to run 2 pases, i think the qm 46 is out of the question, i have hard bad things about them being able to get registered on the second pass, i have absolutly no knowledge of hamada, so form what i know i would go with 3302. which part of the world you in?

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        • #5
          Re: Which press and why

          New Jersey, USA. World: Earth.

          Going to a demo to see the qm46. Hamada seems nice but I feel for a true 2 and any chance of correct 4 color work you can't beat the 3302.

          With that being said, Heidelberg is the leader of the printing world; I think it’s hard to argue that. Can their single blanket bearing to bearing press really run the occasional full color work? I think the advantage is the roller train, and the fact you aren’t bouncing the plate cylinder off the blanket to get an impression. Thoughts?

          Never ran process color, have worked on a 3302 running 2 color before, but it wasn’t process.

          The majority of the work I do is 1 and 2 color. Anything other than that is done on the color copier. I get order orders any where from 1-10,000 clicks per job. Most of it is 500 - 2,500, and most of the time they are brochures.

          Sending the work out isn’t an option, nor is buying used equipment, nor anything other than one of these three presses. Unless someone wants to sell a 4 color at the price of a 2 color, then we can talk. Cannot buy anything other than a Hamada, Ryobi, or Heidelberg. Sorry for the lack of options, but that’s the deal.

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          • #6
            Re: Which press and why

            have you thought about looking at some second hand chhinese or indian presses. i do know that thir manufacturing isnt going to be anywere near heidelberg quality but you get a 4 colour press for a 1 colour price, as long as its running nice for 2 or 3 yrs you have made your money. i do hear that the beiren line of machinery from china are quite well built. good luck

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            • #7
              Re: Which press and why

              Can I chip in
              The QM46 is a good press if you have another press that registers - My view would be a two colour SM52 (can you get semi auto plate mounting??) not with stream feed as you will want to print envs and gilt egded card etc - In the UK I could also get a much better operator to run a Heidelberg -
              Peter

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              • #8
                Re: Which press and why

                I run a 3302 in New York and our shop sounds very similar to yours. Our experience has been that if the run is too long to put on a copier, than it is too long to do two passes on a two color and the amount of press time it would eat up would cost more than partnering with a broker that could have it done on a four color press for you, or a trade printer who will sell it back to you for much less and you can still turn a good profit on it. However, if you're unwilling to take that route, consider this.

                The 3302 we bought came from a shop that was trading it in for a DI. It was sitting beside a QM46 and owner said the only thing he used his 3302 for was process work. Any single or two color work he did, was on the QM46. It is faster to set up and change over, easier to run, but there is no registration board. There is some small mechanism that is supposed to pull the sheet into registration, I'm told, but from the demo I saw of it, multiple passes are flawed. I don't know that there is a lot of difference between the Hamada and the 3302 but I do know a lot of people who run multi pass jobs with zero tolerances on the 3302. I've even seen award winning work come off of them. In my opinion, if Heidelberg had put a registration board on the QM46, they would have a winner. Most people say you can't do process on a common blanket but I think as long as you control your ink tack, you'll be fine. I guess my suggestion would be the top paragraph but if you decided that's out of the question and you want a two color, I'd go with the 3302 with a nice water system, recirculator/chiller, and don't get service from Presstek.

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                • #9
                  Re: Which press and why

                  Thank you all for the comments. If you have read my previous posts there aren’t a lot of options. We must buy one of the following presses:

                  Hamada 234A
                  Ryobi 3302
                  Or the QM46

                  Must be brand new. Sending the jobs out aren’t an option and feel that if we can gang run 2 jobs that are 500-1,000 sheet jobs then we are ahead of the game.

                  After meeting with all three salespeople (Hamada, Ryobi, Heidelberg) I really find that the Hamada 234A is the way to go. While the Ryobi 3302 may have the reputation and a good 15 years of being on the market before Hamada with their 2 up portrait, the differences between the Hamada and Ryobi are significant. The Heidelberg QM46 although being known for durability and well, everything that Heidelberg stands for is a great machine, but isn’t designed to run full color all day long. Can it do it? Sure, if you’re a good juggler I suppose. But lets not stray from common sense, you simply cannot run full color work on 1 blanket, there is a reason why no other press manufacture markets their common blanket 2 color to run process work. Registration board is key for process; I don't think anyone can argue that – but welcome that discussion.

                  So then, why the 243A and not the 3302 you ask? A few reasons, the 3302 although being first on the market back in the early 80's and having made a reputation and properly the most popular true 2 color haven’t made many changes since then. Hamada took the best of the 3302 and the best of Hamada's larger presses and combined the two. With Hamada’s helical cut gears a hair up or down or even left to right is not going to be an issue. Their separate pumps for the air blow and suction allow for a better feed of any stock, into the registration board, and the fact that once the paper does get there it is pushed it over and holds it for a clip of a second before it being taken by the SOLID transfer case.

                  The Ink train on the 234A I feel is superior to the 3302 because of the fact the 2nd form is on the back half and apart from the first form. Ghosting isn’t much of an issue on any newer press now a days, but this ink train should alleviate that problem all together.
                  The water options on the 3302 are limited to the dealer, and the fact that Ryobi pushes their own system over the Kompac and Crestline, frankly has me concerned. Aren’t Kompac and Crestline in the business and know perhaps a little more than one who was only in the business of casting and then decided to make presses, along with power tools I might add? Their water system could be just a nice if not better than the Kompac, but why would Ryobi focus their attention to that over working on the on-the-fly movements that it doesn’t currently have?

                  The fact that I can toss out Hamada’s standard water option, and have the Kompac or Crestline installed by Hamada installed is a plus. Dealer tolerances for perfection could vary, and the fact that Hamada is taking on that installation is great.

                  Delivery area:

                  Does anyone have one of these over priced blow driers that are offered on the 3302 over an IR dryer? I always feel that if it’s good on a 40'' press than lets find a way of putting it on the smaller presses. And what 40'' press has a hot air instead of the IR setup? I can understand the thought behind putting something so hot behind a water system and then fighting the fact that things are getting too hot. But Ryobi has sold them for years with the IR Dryer and so do many other press manufacture. If this is the way to go what happens when you run a press with or without a drier and the press warm up because it’s been moving for 5 hours straight? Water systems should know how to handle this problem, and feel that they have done a great job in doing so.

                  Thoughts?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Which press and why

                    Hi,

                    Just to say that we have a single colour GTO52 and QM46-2; The QM is great for 2 colour work, and we can get away with 4 colour work so long as you use a heavy weight board ie. 200gsm up. If you want to run dedicated 4 colour work, you will need to get a 4 colour press, maybe even a 5 for the coating unit at the end. If you run a lot of spot colour work and stationery then go for a two colour. Hope this helps

                    Matt.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Which press and why

                      Go ryobi 512 it has swing arm instead of feed roller which has marking issues.

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                      • #12
                        Quickmasters are great for 1 or 2 colors, but they share a impression cylinder so ink contamination will be an issue. The Ryobi is really the inly viable canidate that is mentioned. I ran one for 5 years they are truly workhorse machines. And with the advantage of the feedboard design the register issues are a moot point. The Ryobi will run 4 color process all day lon. I would reccomend B and C down first since the M and Y give you the most control over final color. Run 25 sheets through the press printed and run the same sheets back tohrough the press to check register. After that don't change anything especially press speed. I found on the 3302 that the optimum speed for 2 pass process work is between 8000 and 9000 SPH. Thanks,
                        Todd

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