Hamada B452A Mark II

Endlessace

New member
Hi

I’m taking over my father’s small printing business and I was looking for new press to fulfill the consumers’ needs for short run color jobs. I looked at in the Presstek 34DI, then I introduced to Hamada B452 Mark II. I still have much to learn in the industry and don’t really know which one to pick. I’m thinking of going for the Hamada since the cost to buy the machine is much less than the Presstek, and supplies are also cheaper.

I know that make ready time for the Presstek is faster. But what about quality and reliability?

So does anyone have any insight? Any information is greatly appreciated. I’m a veteran and I’m putting all my saving for down payment for one of these machines, so I’m bit nervous.

Thank you in advance,

Sonny
 
Re: Hamada B452A Mark II

Sonny,

Are you a vet from the USA? If so thank you for the service to our country. The Hamada is one fine machine. The DI is ok but supplies,service etc are only available from one source. A true four color press IMHO is the way to go.

I think DI is dying out as a viable print solution

OG
 
Re: Hamada B452A Mark II

First of all - don't listen to offset guy....he's a total tosser & don't buy a hamada you will have nothing but trouble......Ryobi is your best bet on your budget.
 
Re: Hamada B452A Mark II

I am evaluating the trade-in of a Hamada B452A and would like to know if you would be interested in purchasing the press in place of a new model?
 
Re: Hamada B452A Mark II

hi sonny.
the hamada b452 is a very sturdy press, very reliable and has a quick set up time, also the cip3 feature is pretty good, and gets you upto colour fast. very easy press to run and maintain, i dont think you would regret getting one of these presses...
 
Re: Hamada B452A Mark II

Sonny,

I have a customer who had a Hamada B452A Mark II and returned it after about 8 months. The CIP3 feature never worked correctly even though the manufacturer and dealer spent a lot of time working on it. Solids were weak and the density dropped off visibly from gripper to tail of the sheet. My suggestion is that whatever press you are looking at make sure to put it through a battery of print test with your most critical jobs and satisfy yourself that it will work for your applications. Good luck
 
Re: Hamada B452A Mark II

Hi Sonny,
for god's sake don't listen to OG the hamada is CRAP even though they are now tied up with hasimoto they are just RUBBISH.
 
Re: Hamada B452A Mark II

hey leo.
what company did you deal with on the hamada.....i know some people who have them and they print fine, solids, book covers.....these presses are really good for the money you pay....

Edited by: macman on Jul 18, 2008 4:41 PM

Edited by: macman on Jul 18, 2008 4:41 PM
 
Re: Hamada B452A Mark II

Hi Macman,

I would only like to say that the end user who had the Hamada B452 was in the United States and not identify the end-user and dealer to stay away from any legal issues. My story is the honest to god truth and the press was removed after roughly 8 months and replaced unfortunately for me by a Heidelberg SM52. The customer told me that the reason they returned the press was because solids were poor and the CIP3 could only get as accurate as around 80% which a good pressman can achieve anyway without CIP3. The CIP3 should get you 90-95% to color on the first pull if you have the ink and dampening rollers set correctly from my experience with the Ryobi products.
 
Re: Hamada B452A Mark II

When this press was replaced with the SM52 were the same brands and types of inks plates blankets fountain solutions washup and other consumables still used on the new SM52 as were used on the Hamada?
No matter how hard you try some combinations of consumables will never work together on a particle brand of press.
I have heard similar complaints and stories for just about every brand of press made.
In a large percentage of these cases the questionable machine ends up in another shop and it works just fine.
Once in a while a press is damaged in shipping and it is not detectable until months later.
I have personally sent back press units damaged in shipment.
 
Re: Hamada B452A Mark II

Hi Pat,

As far as I know, the press has not been placed into another shop yet. I totally agree that there is a whole host of products that can make or break a press's performance and I am sure that Heidelberg made sure that their press worked fine but that does not explain the problems with the Hamada and that the dealer or Hamada America could not solve the problems. I am sure that there are Hamada presses out there running great work but press inker, dampener and cylinder configuration designs greatly affect the print quality and some presses have better designs than others. As I said before, test any machine to match the level of performance that you require before you buy it and then you can only blame yourself if you or your customer's are not satisfied with the results.
 
Re: Hamada B452A Mark II

Once a machine that does not work properly is under warranty or repair it requires perfection plus to gain the confidence of the buyer.
Every little thing that before hand was considered normal is now perceived as a fault that requires repair and or intervention. Many times the owner is in a total negative attitude and no matter what is done will not cure it.
 
Re: Hamada B452A Mark II

I worked in a shop with the Hamada for over 2 years and never once did I hear our pressman say one good thing about it.

Inconsistent color.
Terrible solids.
Roll recovery.

We tried everything and eventually found the best solution was to lower our expectations and teach our clients to be flexible.

Needless to say our client list was continuing to shrink when I finally gave up on the company.
 
Sonny,

I think this thread needs a bit of balance!

We ran a 452A for several years and around 20 million impressions and so hopefully this will be of some use to you.

It's a reliable little press. There was only only one major breakdown in that time, caused by an electrical fault.

It's also a pretty nice press to operate and very fast to set up with a properly trained minder. I doubt whether a DI is any faster when you take on-press plate imaging time into consideration. The semi automatic plate loading is particularly good and accurate. The CIP3 / ink presets are fairly basic but reasonably accurate and definitely save time. The blanket washers are not good. The feed is very reliable, but struggles on heavier stocks (anything much over 300gsm). Marking can be an issue on heavy card stock unless care is taken.

You can achieve good solids and consistent colour. The machine needs to be set up properly (chemistry, plates, calibration etc.) and maintained 100%, otherwise you will get problems. You need a properly trained minder, otherwise you will struggle. In England we have a 3 year machine printing apprenticeship, you'll have the same or similar in the US.

The bottom line is that it's not the best B3 press in the world, but it's reasonably priced, reliable and produces good work when used properly.

Would I buy another one? No, but the only reasons are (a) there's no coater option and we tend to coat all non gloss work these days (b) we are not a start up anymore and our budget is bigger.

I hope that helps & good luck.
 
Hi there im in the boat to looking at a 2 colour for my company and looked at a 4 colour as well. looked at the B452A and Shinohara 52 which i like the look of. Im a digital printer with oce machines we have 4 all up. We want offset offering to offer. looked at the DI but the cost of running and buying is just way to much for what you get....Running cost are over the top... We do like the Shinohara from what we have seen.

Cheers
 
b452mkII

b452mkII

i have to say the new hamada is quite a pleasure to run, and next to the shinohara the print quality is hardly noticable..for the money you pay for a hamada , you get a good printing press, i know of 30 plus of these in the uk market, and they have hardly any problems
 
Hamada B452A

Hamada B452A

The problem is with the hamada B452 in the support it is very limited and alot of the techs don't know the press that well .I am a 452 operator for the last 2 years and when the press runs it great but when it does not it's a nighmare . We set up a 452 took us 90 days of mecanicial problems one after another and no support that was even with the techs there they were on the phone 2 out of the 4 hours they were there and still did not fix it . electrical bi-pass buttons they were trying everything . I am inclined and they were grasping for straws looking for a miracle. If you have a pressman you want to punish this is the press for you but in the long run you would be just punishing yourself look elsewhere .
 
I don't think that there is any brand of offset press that doesn't have a horror story about an installation. The best thing to do is talk to as many users as you can. If 90-95% of them are happy the machine is fine. The Hamada is a great press but it is only as good as your local supporting dealer. We have sold 8 of these presses and everyone of our users is totally happy with them. Some of them are about 8 years old and have required very little service and parts. 80% of all press maintenance is in the roller train. Hamada has just announced that they will no longer manufacture new presses as of June 30, 2009. We as dealers are waiting for information about a new company being spun off to provide parts and technical support. Hamada pulled out of the USA about 2 months ago. The Hamada dealers now have a parts database that all of the dealers have their parts listed on. All Hamada dealers can access each others part inventories over the web. The dealers are communicating with each other when they are ordering parts from Japan. We put our orders together and distribute them amongst ourselves. Part orders are going into the factory weekly so the flow of parts to this point has been fine. The offset market from 14 x 20 down to duplicators is going away. I would bet other small press manufacturers will stop building 14 x 20 and duplicators in the near future. Manufacturers can't build what people aren't buying.
 

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