? Best Means To Create Equal Ink Dwell Time with a Printing Machine ?

[D Ink Man]

Is it possible to create a permanent situation on a printing machine where the inks residence time on the printing machine is an exacting and constant time from fountain ball to the kiss of the substrate?

For now let us say we have but "one" press (Heidelberg XL105 40" 6 units with a coater). What could be done, 'No Matter the Coverage / Ink Take Off', to create an exacting residence of the ink within the machine for dwell?

Curious D

 

[Deleted member 16349]

Is it possible to create a permanent situation on a printing machine where the inks residence time on the printing machine is an exacting and constant time from fountain ball to the kiss of the substrate?

For now let us say we have but "one" press (Heidelberg XL105 40" 6 units with a coater). What could be done, 'No Matter the Coverage / Ink Take Off', to create an exacting residence of the ink within the machine for dwell?

Curious D

I would say it is not possible.

As I see it, when fresh ink is introduced to the roller train, it does not just go straight to the plate and eventually to the substrate. What it does is mix with the ink that is already in the roller train.

Some of that fresh ink will go directly down through the roller train and to the substrate. Some of that fresh ink will stay in the roller train a very long time. This can be seen if one drops a different ink into the roller train. Some of that contaminating ink will go directly to the substrate at the linear speed of the press, and some of that contaminating ink will stay in the roller train for quite some time.

It would be like mixing one ink into a pail of another ink. It would be hard to take out only that one ink that was put in after mixing.

 

[D Ink Man]

Little confooosed.

How about after the press has perfectly equilabrated to running temperature and definitive constant density?

Could the ink perhaps be a major contributor to this utopic condition with a perfectly formulated interacting fluid with the fount?

Not just concentrating on ink here with my comment, but feel it is well worth mentioning since it is the biggest mover and shaker on that printing machine. Agree? Plus it is the visible product of the complete reproductive lithographic creation. Further...... welcomed warmly and with an open mind.

D

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Equal Ink Dwell Time - mmm

Gentlemen,

1) Too many input variables - 2) Ink the biggest mover and shaker ? my opinion No - Paper is the Main Input Variable.

Regards, Alois

 

[D Ink Man]

I use paper everyday, especially in the morning. You may be on to something here Alois.

 

[Alois Senefelder]

Paper mmm

D Ink Man,

I'm so pleased that you find the time to read the "Morning Paper" -- is there no end for the uses of Paper ?

Regards, Alois

 

[D Ink Man]

I don't read the morning paper because there is none; it is all digital montage. That is a shame for you, I and the world, don't you think.

And...I don't have the time to read it either. The paper I was referring to was one that you must find time for. Further...

Ink is the Greatest Missive Weapon of all the Battles of the Learned. Think about that in heavy cerebral mode, please.

And than you shall harken to the passion that I possess for that greasy kid stuff, "INK".

D

 

[Green Printer]

Is it possible to create a permanent situation on a printing machine where the inks residence time on the printing machine is an exacting and constant time from fountain ball to the kiss of the substrate?

For now let us say we have but "one" press (Heidelberg XL105 40" 6 units with a coater). What could be done, 'No Matter the Coverage / Ink Take Off', to create an exacting residence of the ink within the machine for dwell?

Curious D

if it could be done what would you expect to happen?

 

[D Ink Man]

Best achievable lithographic perfection with minimization of variability encountered by the mere mortal man who has proven fraught with countless shortcomings.

That's all.

D

 

[Green Printer]

Best achievable lithographic perfection with minimization of variability encountered by the mere mortal man who has proven fraught with countless shortcomings.

That's all.

D

If the ink feed system is able to control exactly what goes in matches what is transferred to the substrate would that suffice?

 

[D Ink Man]

No, unfortunately not in most situations. The only scenario where that would be possible is where you have multiple constants. Those constants and in order of importance are; Coverage, substrate, all around temperatures, fount chemistry and ink rheological properties. In most cases these constants are constantly changing in a normal commercial pressroom. Coverage, ink take off is substantially the most significant harbinger.

D

 

[aqazi81]

Erik has a solution for this.....

 

[D Ink Man]

The ink transfer blade Erik has touted could be part of it.

But! There is actually something that could be done to the ink phase to creat this utopic lithographic setting. Details can follow.

D

 

[aqazi81]

It can be on heavy coverage jobs where response is very quick when you increase or decrease the fountain roller sweep or with ink zone opening, but on little to low coverage jobs this seems very difficult or impossible. May be a short ink train can help.

 

[D Ink Man]

[FONT=&quot]Actually and I shall elaborate a bit...........just a bit for starter. INK & COVERAGE.

Case Scenario: We began with the Heidelberg XL105 40" 6 units with a coater as stated in original post. First we must define the total possible for 100% solid. Let's stick with 4/c process, K-C-M-Y. This is where the theory would be of most importance. Each unit, plate, ink coverage will be different for each form. So the maximum solid coverage for each color is 26 x 40" or 1040 sq. inches (close enough to impress the point here). So, if we know exactly how much of that 1040 inches is for each form and each color, we could in theory adjust each process ink for pigment content in order to keep the dwell time of each ink the same. It is not so fa fetched. I hope you are beginning to grasp and be open minded about the concept. Further a solid coverage printing the full 1040 sq., inches would require the FULL STRENGTH process ink. Based on any coverage less than that, an extender would be added (hopefully mechanically) to accommodate the lighter coverage. The extender, varnish, or transparent white (it does not matter what you call it) is the critical ingredient of the equation. Not only would it be a weaker entity naturally, it would be critical for it to not change or disturb the inherent rheological properties of the process ink(s). You would make each process color equal for rheological properties which include TACK, VISCOSITY, FLOW, SHORTNESS RATIO and TRANSFER RATE (governed by the same vehicle, of course). Now skeptics before you holler, remember, unitack or in this case uniproerty inks/extender would not be sacrificed for printability. The time between succeeding units as each ink kisses the substrate is plenty enough to still produce good trap and reproduction. Again, this is not as fantastical as one may think. It simply would be having the knowledge of the total square inches for each ink and mechanically adjusting your ink strength to accommodate the same ink thickness and dwell time of residence on the press, fountain ball to substrate.

Now I know there are much greater technologies that are being developed that jet micronized pigment encapsulations onto a sheet such as the Benny project; however my idea is taking an already proven print technology (offset; undeniably the highest quality) and lifting it to a newer, higher level for print performance and excellence.

Not a sermon, just a thought.

D Ink Man [/FONT]

 

[D Ink Man]

Where's Erik when you need him!?!

 

[Green Printer]

[FONT=&quot]Actually and I shall elaborate a bit...........just a bit for starter. INK & COVERAGE.

Case Scenario: We began with the Heidelberg XL105 40" 6 units with a coater as stated in original post. First we must define the total possible for 100% solid. Let's stick with 4/c process, K-C-M-Y. This is where the theory would be of most importance. Each unit, plate, ink coverage will be different for each form. So the maximum solid coverage for each color is 26 x 40" or 1040 sq. inches (close enough to impress the point here). So, if we know exactly how much of that 1040 inches is for each form and each color, we could in theory adjust each process ink for pigment content in order to keep the dwell time of each ink the same. It is not so fa fetched. I hope you are beginning to grasp and be open minded about the concept. Further a solid coverage printing the full 1040 sq., inches would require the FULL STRENGTH process ink. Based on any coverage less than that, an extender would be added (hopefully mechanically) to accommodate the lighter coverage. The extender, varnish, or transparent white (it does not matter what you call it) is the critical ingredient of the equation. Not only would it be a weaker entity naturally, it would be critical for it to not change or disturb the inherent rheological properties of the process ink(s). You would make each process color equal for rheological properties which include TACK, VISCOSITY, FLOW, SHORTNESS RATIO and TRANSFER RATE (governed by the same vehicle, of course). Now skeptics before you holler, remember, unitack or in this case uniproerty inks/extender would not be sacrificed for printability. The time between succeeding units as each ink kisses the substrate is plenty enough to still produce good trap and reproduction. Again, this is not as fantastical as one may think. It simply would be having the knowledge of the total square inches for each ink and mechanically adjusting your ink strength to accommodate the same ink thickness and dwell time of residence on the press, fountain ball to substrate.

Now I know there are much greater technologies that are being developed that jet micronized pigment encapsulations onto a sheet such as the Benny project; however my idea is taking an already proven print technology (offset; undeniably the highest quality) and lifting it to a newer, higher level for print performance and excellence.

Not a sermon, just a thought.

D Ink Man [/FONT]

Different pigment loads depending on coverage?

 

[D Ink Man]

Yes sir. Pigment=Density & Density=Pigment
D

 

[Green Printer]

properly made ink will transfer the same amount of pigment per unit area of the plate image whatever the coverage

 

[Green Printer]

If you have a plate with 35% solids and 15% light screens what pigment load would you use? How would you ever achieve gray balance with varying pigment loads?
You would have to wash up the rollers and well every time you changed plates.
Repeat jobs would be almost impossible.
How would you do an in ink key preset?