Offset could be almost as simple as this concept from Bobst

  • Thread starter Deleted member 16349
  • Start date
D

Deleted member 16349

Guest
I think this concept from Bobst is fantastic and very interesting. I have provided two links. One is an animation and the other is the actual press.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9iJmTgPy-w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO46ahnY088

I think that offset lithography (without an anilox ink feed) can be developed with a very similar approach but one must think differently about how the offset press would be designed.

I think it can be applied also to sheetfed.
 
I think this concept from Bobst is fantastic and very interesting. I have provided two links. One is an animation and the other is the actual press.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9iJmTgPy-w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO46ahnY088

I think that offset lithography (without an anilox ink feed) can be developed with a very similar approach but one must think differently about how the offset press would be designed.

I think it can be applied also to sheetfed.

It reminds me of the Drent Goebel VSOP hybrid press demonstration in Toronto in 2003 (if memory serves). We used Creo Spotless and a 7 color process to simulate over 1400 Pantone spot colors on that hybrid sheetfed/flexo press. I did the technical support for that part of the demo. It makes the Landa press look conceptually old fashioned due to its extensive press operator interface.

Drent_zpshtzttrcx.jpg
 
It reminds me of the Drent Goebel VSOP hybrid press demonstration in Toronto in 2003 (if memory serves). We used Creo Spotless and a 7 color process to simulate over 1400 Pantone spot colors on that hybrid sheetfed/flexo press. I did the technical support for that part of the demo. It makes the Landa press look conceptually old fashioned due to its extensive press operator interface.

Drent_zpshtzttrcx.jpg

Hi Gordon. I am really surprised that Drent Goebel was here in Toronto in 2003. I gave them a two day course on press design related to colour (density) control in 2004 at their plant in Holland. At that time they also tested my ITB technology and kept it on their one unit VSOP test press for several years.

When I saw the Bobst press in the video, I was also thinking about the DG VSOP press. I like the Bobst concept better because on can change the plate cylinder while the press is running. With some different arrangement of the roller train on the DG press, they could also do something similar. DG went bankrupt around 2010 and now there is a new company formed DGServices that services old DG presses and has designed a new press called the Thallo (a VSOP style) press. I think they missed the opportunity to do something special.

Last year they sold that press concept to Goss and now Goss has an added this press concept for their packaging line which is not a special addition. Unfortunately, the VSOP concept is good but it is not the kind of technology that can save a company. Three companies have had it and failed or at least suffered. DG failed, Muller Martini failed and DGServices probably had to sell it to avoid failure, I am guessing.

But I like the Bobst press as a flexo press. Very cleaver concept with all the extra colours and the inter-unit drying. Fast and simple production machine concept. An offset version could have been special and successful in my view with how I would have thought it out. Maybe just a dream. :)
 
I believe Tetra Pak at some point invested heavily in the Drent VSOP presses to replace their aging fleet of Chambon presses which required switching out the complete plate and blanket cylinder 'cassettes' This was very time consuming and required a large area to store the many different heavy repeat length cassettes. The concept of 'on the fly' makeready for offset was marketed by a company from Bristol UK, Strachan & Henshaw on their Variquik press. Dont believe they are still in business

here's a short blurb from a user


"Variquiks eliminate the high makeready cost and waste at the front end prevalent in large web presses," states Nuffer. "The variable presses take 48 seconds for makeready, while large webs take 45 minutes. Plus, they feature two printing units, both the same size, in the same tower. We use one unit to print, and while it's running, we change over on the second."
 
I believe Tetra Pak at some point invested heavily in the Drent VSOP presses to replace their aging fleet of Chambon presses which required switching out the complete plate and blanket cylinder 'cassettes' This was very time consuming and required a large area to store the many different heavy repeat length cassettes.

Tetra Pak, a great company. I started working for them in 1984. They were just starting offset and the newly built Canadian plant was only an offset operation. Normally, Tetra Pak runs gravure and flexo presses.

Tetra Pak was a very entrepreneurial company back then and I am sure they still have some of that culture now, although I think it has become a bit more controlled in their management style. Anyhow, back then, Tetra Pak made many big bets on technologies and products and actually there were a lot of failures. But their successes helped propel the company ahead. They let people, who wanted to, to experiment and fail often but also to have the opportunity to succeed at times. I have never found that in any company before or after working for TP.

I have to say that I learned most of my specific new knowledge about the offset process studying and making tests on those Chambon presses. The first crude testing of the ITB concept was done on a Chambon press back in 1991. At the time, an on line density measuring system was also being tested and it was used to help plot the density values and water speed values during the ITB testing. The ITB concept was specifically designed to be able to make a quick test of the theory I had about ink/water balance and the test was successful in that respects. Not good enough for production but demonstrated the science.

At the time, the average set up on the Chambons were about 25 minutes and took a little over 1000 impressions. Co printing products was often done. The presses were roll to roll, so they had to be stopped to get a sample, changes made and then run again. Presses were all fully computerized.

I wish I knew then what I know now because it would have lead to path that would have resulted in a low cost solution to production issues. Instead I took a path developing a multi pump ink fountain system that was expensive and had faults which wasted time and money. But that is history. :-(

Now at Tetra Pak, there are hardly any offset presses in their main production. Some are only used for specialty products. TP has gone back almost fully to their older technologies, which are actually better for their purposes. A whole offset factory was closed a few years ago. Gravure and flexo run faster and have wider webs. Of course, Tetra Pak will always be investigating and then using the latest and best ideas and probably much earlier than other producers.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
"Variquiks eliminate the high makeready cost and waste at the front end prevalent in large web presses," states Nuffer. "The variable presses take 48 seconds for makeready, while large webs take 45 minutes. Plus, they feature two printing units, both the same size, in the same tower. We use one unit to print, and while it's running, we change over on the second."

I tried to find a diagram of this press but couldn't. It seems that the concept has two print units where one unit runs while the other unit is set up. I think Timson used a similar concept for book printing. Other press manufacturers have tried similar ideas.

I don't tend to like the concept since it seems to waste money on idle equipment in the press by having a unit being set up. Works but not the best idea. I liked the Bobst concept because nothing needed to be idle. Just looked neater and more efficient too.

Also when one has 7 units, such as when running these extended gamut presses, the idea of having actually 14 units within the press seems overdone. :)

Reality is tough. One might think an idea is great but then reality brings one back down to earth fast. If one can not learn from mistakes and poor choices, then one will not be able to make the needed changes that will produce that special result. It is not easy when one does not know the rules. Finding the rules is the key.
 

PressWise

A 30-day Fix for Managed Chaos

As any print professional knows, printing can be managed chaos. Software that solves multiple problems and provides measurable and monetizable value has a direct impact on the bottom-line.

“We reduced order entry costs by about 40%.” Significant savings in a shop that turns about 500 jobs a month.


Learn how…….

   
Back
Top