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  • Xerox has had their share of problems

    At about 9:15 it gets pretty interesting. I've never heard this before....

  • #2
    That video only tells part of the story of what Xerox passed up on over the years.

    Apple wasn't the only company given previews of the Alto computer system (and then their officially commercially released Star workstation based on the Alto). I was given a similar tour by Xerox PARC when working for Wang Labs back in 1980. What they had was amazing! Regrettably, Wang Labs had an “executive succession problem” (can you say “nepotism”) and work we were doing to make a commercially viable real-world system with similar technologies floundered because “Fred” continued to believe that a Z80 microprocessor with 64K of memory and a 24x80 character-based screen would forever be able to be sold for $5,000 and those involved in the next generation systems, including myself, all left for greener pastures.

    Not only did Xerox pass on really productizing their Alto/Star workstation technology, but they also passed on the concept of a device-independent, next generation page description language. Both John Warnock and Chuck Geschke left Xerox PARC and founded Adobe using technology that Xerox didn't want to productize. Where do you think PostScript came from?

    It also turned out that in the early 1980s, Xerox bought a company called SDS, Scientific Data Systems, a designer and manufacturer of high end computers used in scientific and engineering applications, renamed it to XDS, and then let it wither on the vine.

    And there was another Xerox faux pas. In the mid-1980s, Xerox bought a two man software company based in Morgan Hill, CA (south of San Jose) that produced the Ventura Publisher publishing product. Even in 1987, it had some layout features that are still not matched in InDesign today. It was certainly easier to use and higher performance than Aldus PageMaker or early versions of QuarkXPress. But Xerox didn't know how to continue product development or support the product, eventually selling the product to Corel which subsequently dropped it.

    The problem was that whenever Xerox's Rochester and later Stamford, Connecticut executives got pitched with new technology and product ideas, they got nervous and retreated to what they felt comfortable as, a copier company! (Ironically, the first Xerox Docutech printers were really repurposed and souped-up “write white which is never quite right” copiers!)

    Very sad how both Xerox (and Kodak and other tech companies) with great technology failed even though they had the technologies and engineering, but not the management and executives with vision into the future.

    - Dov

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    • #3
      Adobe Also is famous of acquiring products and killing it or dropping it
      They acquired Macromedia Freehand and dropped it after taking his excellent feature and incorporated it in InDesign
      They acquired FontOgraphic and dropped it
      They acquired FomrCentral and create Adobe Central - but was not successful,and dropped the product

      Finally they are killing postscript - however the product still fighting Adobe and amazingly still exist in most production printers as standard or option next to PDF

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      • #4
        Management can afford to fail since it’s the employees and customers who suffer as a result while management gets a golden parachute and hefty bonuses. The retailer Sears is a perfect example: https://globalnews.ca/news/3598469/s...ement-bonuses/
        Last edited by gordo; 12-25-2018, 06:26 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Basha View Post
          Adobe Also is famous of acquiring products and killing it or dropping it …
          Finally they are killing postscript - however the product still fighting Adobe and amazingly still exist in most production printers as standard or option next to PDF
          Who told you that Adobe is “killing PostScript?”

          Adobe never announced an “end-of-life” for the Adobe PostScript 3” OEM printer products or support for PostScript and/or EPS as either input or output of its major products. And yes, many but not all production printers do offer a PostScript option for legacy workflows, typically old applications that cannot readily be modified to directly produce PDF or are no longer being developed or supported by their developers. Virtually all new applications, especially any and all graphic arts applications have PDF as their primary output format simply due to the fact that the PDF imaging model goes well beyond that of PostScript, natively supporting live transparency, color management, etc. (Ironically, some of the PostScript support in production printers is achieved by distilling PostScript into PDF behind the scenes and printing from the resultant PDF)

          - Dov
          Last edited by Dov Isaacs; 02-19-2019, 08:56 PM.

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          • #6
            Simply put, any given company is only able to support a limited number of technologies, visions. You can blame it on the executives, the financing, the lack of human resources... Xerox's example is monumental, but many other companies have had their similar problems.

            On the other hand, I suppose that this kind of 'takeover of technology' is only possible when: a.) tech transfer is allowed or even encouraged (via licensing, like in the case of Xerox/Apple), and b.) technology is relatively easy to develop and manufacture. Let's see how Tesla will stand its ground when the german automaker's backlash will finally arrive in the form of well-made, affordable electric cars.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Dov Isaacs View Post
              Who told you that Adobe is “killing PostScript?”

              Adobe never announced an “end-of-life” for the Adobe PostScript 3” OEM printer products or support for PostScript and/or EPS as either input or output of its major products. And yes, many but not all production printers do offer a PostScript option for legacy workflows, typically old applications that cannot readily be modified to directly produce PDF or are no longer being developed or supported by their developers. Virtually all new applications, especially any and all graphic arts applications have PDF as their primary output format simply due to the fact that the PDF imaging model goes well beyond that of PostScript, natively supporting live transparency, color management, etc. (Ironically, some of the PostScript support in production printers is achieved by distilling PostScript into PDF behind the scenes and printing from the resultant PDF)

              - Div
              Adobe is practically never added anything new to Postscript since 1997 ?

              What is that mean ?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Basha View Post

                Adobe is practically never added anything new to Postscript since 1997 ?

                What is that mean ?
                Doesn't mean that it was “killed” unless you have an awfully strange definition of “killed” …

                - Dov

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                • #9
                  The first time I ever used a mouse was on a demo version of Ventura Publisher. My company ended up buying PageMaker instead (running straight out of DOS, no less). Now I'm curious to know what features it had. I used to use Multi-Ad Creator, and it had features ten years ago that I still wish Illustrator had.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Basha View Post
                    Adobe Also is famous of acquiring products and killing it or dropping it
                    They acquired Macromedia Freehand and dropped it after taking his excellent feature and incorporated it in InDesign
                    Basha, don't you mean Illustrator?

                    Possumgal, I haven't used Multi-Ad Creator, but that sounds like something that would be closer to features in InDesign or at least that could be achieved with plug-ins. Even though Illustrator will let you do multiple art boards, which is nice. But InDesign is Adobe's page layout app.

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