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From employee to freelancer for the same company!

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  • From employee to freelancer for the same company!

    Happy New Year to every one!

    Getting straight to the subject.

    The printshop i'm working finally hit rock bottom - even though we still have a lot of work.

    The owner moved everything to a ''new'' company and he made new business proposals to the remaining stuff.

    For me the deal he proposed is working from home via team viewer and he asked me to tell him what i would charge.

    I'm thinking an hourly rate that is similar to my current one.

    To achieve this since i'll not be an employee anymore but a freelancer/service provider i need to figure out somethings.

    First medical care/pension and tax expenses.

    Secondly an accountant fee.

    Already done the above.

    Am i missing something i should also consider?

    Would you propose another charging method?

    How can we both agree on how much time a job takes to be done, sometimes you need ten minutes to preflight and impose a well prepared file, some other times you ( i at least ) may take a couple of hours fixing problems.

    Calls should be expected on various times a day, he said he'll need me for a couple of hours every afternoon but we both know that is not going to work.


    I'm all ears on whatever you might wanna say, or for me to clarify!

    Thanks in advance!

  • #2
    Coming from the employer side of the equation a few ?s Are you eligible for Medicare yet, I just went over the edge there and it looks like medical insurance for me and my mrs through the company plan is about 1400 bucks a month - and the medicare I have chosen will run me about 1/2 of that - In your shoes I would put that at the top of my calculations to figure out the "minimum" base pay, also I would make certain that you can cover your expenses, i.e. cost of the Creative suite, Hardware upgrades, rental of your "office space/bedroom" and anything else you can think of that is a "fixed" monthly amount . . . this amount would be your base pay.

    Then into your "hourly" rate you need to figure out the Matching SSI that your employer paid while under their roof and that to your hourly rate.

    Also I would work out vacation - the period of time you will NOT be available to him each year and how you are going to work around that, mostly from his point of view since he will need to have your work done while you are off the grid.

    I'm looking at the same situation here in about a year, going to retire and try and help them out from the house and RV if possible.

    One plus that I can see is that you can solicit other printers/vendors who might need your services and actually increase your total compensation.


    Good Luck
    "If you think you are too small to be effective
    you have never been in the dark with a mosquito."

    Comment


    • #3
      Also if you declare an S-corp the new tax law allows for only 80% pass through income to you. 20% you don't pay taxes on.

      Comment


      • #4
        I must look up some things here to found out whats analogue to my country's tax/med environment but you're already gave me a lot of insight here, thanks a lot!

        Does anyone here alright works on the same basis?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by motormount View Post
          Am i missing something i should also consider?

          Would you propose another charging method?

          How can we both agree on how much time a job takes to be done, sometimes you need ten minutes to preflight and impose a well prepared file, some other times you ( i at least ) may take a couple of hours fixing problems.

          Calls should be expected on various times a day, he said he'll need me for a couple of hours every afternoon but we both know that is not going to work.


          I'm all ears on whatever you might wanna say, or for me to clarify!

          Thanks in advance!
          Just some comments.

          When you go into this kind of a situation, even though you might have worked for that company for a long time, you will probably be treated differently. Before you were an insider but now you will be an outsider and that can result in how people, who are still on the inside, talk to you. It can be a subtle difference or not so subtle. There will be no incentive for the insiders to be considerate of your situation once you are outside.

          The overhead a company pays for an employee can be in the range of 40% above the base salary. Your old boss seems to want you available each day. He is hoping to have a virtual employee at a reduced rate. He is tying you up each day and it might be hard for you to work for other customers. Of course if you try to obtain the same overall compensation, my guess is that your old boss will strongly object.

          Another issue is liability. If a job goes wrong, are you going to be personally liable for damages? When on is inside a company, the occasional error is accepted but not so much when you are outside.

          The better and safer option might be to just find another job within a different company. You really don't have any obligation to support your old employer once they have cut you loose. Employment is by far a safer option for most people.

          Comment


          • #6
            motormount,


            I agree with Erik's comments, remember you are covered by EU employment regulations.

            Most of the answers posted relate to American employment regulations!


            Employ your skills by working for a new employer.



            Regards, Alois

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Alois Senefelder View Post
              motormount,


              I agree with Erik's comments, remember you are covered by EU employment regulations.

              Most of the answers posted relate to American employment regulations!


              Employ your skills by working for a new employer.



              Regards, Alois
              You're right that's why i wrote i should look up what's ''analogue'' to my country's!

              I know it's better to find employment elsewhere and i've been looking to the last couple of years even harder the last one!

              I only found lesser paid jobs and in an interview i was asked if i could bring some of my current company's clientele to them...( go figure )

              Like i wrote elsewhere i only lack packaging experience, i do all regular prepress stuff ( color correction/ image editing / pdf export/check/fix , vdp, digital etc ) plus some graphic design and photography - i shot and designed everything you see on my site https://www.lightinblack.com
              and all that only got me two interviews last year...

              So till i find something to move on, instead of sitting and waiting i think it's better to bargain the best agreement i can get with current company and i really red a lot of things i didn't consider yet!

              Thanks again for your really valuable input, i'm all ears if anyone wants to add something more!

              Comment


              • #8
                Really depends on which EU country you are residing in, EU rules and regs are patchwork at best. But most countries won´t stand you freelancing for just one or sometimes even two "customers" as they will assume that you are pseudo-freelancing and trying to get around the wage by-costs and insurances. And if you are in the German part of the EU don´t and I really mean it don´t go ANOBAG (Arbeitnehmer ohne Beitragspflichtiger Arbeitgeber) ANOBAG is bah!

                Comment


                • #9
                  In fact there's a regulation here that cut's down taxes when you're only working for one ''customer'' as a ''freelancer''.
                  It's a win-win situation for management and government, management pushes costs down while government doesn't see unemployment figures go up...
                  I don't know an english word to describe a situation that is funny ( ridiculous ) and sad at the same moment, but we have a really nice one here!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by motormount View Post
                    In fact there's a regulation here that cut's down taxes when you're only working for one ''customer'' as a ''freelancer''.
                    It's a win-win situation for management and government, management pushes costs down while government doesn't see unemployment figures go up...
                    I don't know an english word to describe a situation that is funny ( ridiculous ) and sad at the same moment, but we have a really nice one here!
                    I think the word you might be looking for is:

                    i·ron·ic
                    īˈränik/
                    adjective
                    1. using or characterized by irony.
                      "his mouth curved into an ironic smile"
                      synonyms: sarcastic, sardonic, cynical, mocking, satirical, caustic, wry
                      "Edward's tone was ironic"
                      • happening in the opposite way to what is expected, and typically causing wry amusement because of this.
                        "it was ironic that now that everybody had plenty of money for food, they couldn't obtain it because everything was rationed"
                        synonyms: paradoxical, incongruous
                        "it's ironic that a former illiterate is now a successful writer"
                    "If you think you are too small to be effective
                    you have never been in the dark with a mosquito."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Erik summed up most of the thing very nicely. Your initial hourly rate should be plus 120-130 percent than your current net hourly wage. That might cover your taxes, health insurances and infrastructure costs. Eg. if you earn 1000 EUR net now, you should ask 2300 EUR freelancing. Of course you have to give a bill about it, and you have to hire an accountant etc. The most pressing issue is the vacation, as your 'employer' will want you work each and every day (or require to get a stand-in for the time of you being away).

                      Honestly, if the situation is so desperate, there are only two ways to prevail:
                      - learn something which is more 'sellable' (became a web developer, which I see something you do more or less already),
                      - get out of the place and move to somewhere else, where your talents are honored.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Also bear in mind that there is no provision for you when work is slow, i.e. there are are no minimum hours of work from week to week so budgeting is a must and advertise yourself as being available for contract work, have a look at www.upwork.com

                        good luck

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by motormount View Post
                          In fact there's a regulation here that cut's down taxes when you're only working for one ''customer'' as a ''freelancer''.
                          It's a win-win situation for management and government, management pushes costs down while government doesn't see unemployment figures go up...
                          I don't know an english word to describe a situation that is funny ( ridiculous ) and sad at the same moment, but we have a really nice one here!
                          And that would be...?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ''And that would be...?''


                            It's a combination of the words tragic and laughter ( gelotas in greek ), would sound in english like ''tragelafic'' if you don't mind some language abuse.

                            Both here and from b4print i red a lot of things i should take in consideration before forming a proposal, others i already thought of, others made clearer and some didn't passed my mind at all.

                            The most important drawback is the bill collecting issue.

                            I already had a hard time as an employee the last couple of years, i don't even like to think how was/is it like for our providers...

                            Thanks again!

                            Comment

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