Acrobat won't convert elements tagged with ICC profiles

[rich apollo]

It appears that the Convert Colors tool, in Acrobat, won't convert elements that are tagged with an ICC profile - even if you've selected "Calibrated" colors to be converted. It also seems that Preflight won't do this either.

Why would those elements be excluded? Am I missing something on how to do this?

 

[mattbeals]

Can you send me a sample document?

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

I do it all the time. What version of Acrobat and PDF are you working.
Since Acrobat 9, I usually convert to output intent, preserving blacks and pure colours…Â*this is for repurposing. All works as it should, only remember to tagg device CMYK if you want it to convert.

 

[rich apollo]

Hi, Lukas,
I'm working with Acrobat 9.1.2 on Mac OS 10.4.11. Matt Beals and I went through some exercises, and he demonstrated that he could do this on his Windows system. I demonstrated to him how it was not working on mine.

Just tried it again, and once again it did not work. When I originally posted, I wasn't sure if this was an intended limitation, or not.

 

[rich apollo]

Found it!

If PitStop's Color Management is "enabled" (see attached screen grab) it keeps the Color Convert tool from acting on elements tagged with ICC profiles. I'm running PitStop Pro version 8 update 5 (US).

Preflight has a different issue. It looks like it won't convert those elements unless an Output Intent is present. Gotta' look into that further.

 

[mattbeals]

PitStop is screwing up Acrobat Pro 9's color conversion???????????? It's as crazy that you have to have an output intent to convert the document. I can see where using an OI is easier for the conversion, but it shouldn't be required......

that's nukin' futs!

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

Well I think it is natural that you should have an output intent. I mean you are intending to output it sometime? And incase you want to repurpose it it is good to know what it was created for.

 

[hohmj0kw]

Acrobat's fix up Convert to SWOP should do the trick as well

 

[mattbeals]

Well I think it is natural that you should have an output intent. I mean you are intending to output it sometime? And incase you want to repurpose it it is good to know what it was created for.

Yes, it's good always to know and to communicate the OI. Fortunately most, if not all the processing Rich is doing, is for internal shop work. But there shouldn't be a need to specify an OI in order to perform the conversion in the first place.

 

[rich apollo]

Well I think it is natural that you should have an output intent. I mean you are intending to output it sometime? And incase you want to repurpose it it is good to know what it was created for.

So, how should a CMYK Output Intent affect RGB elements in the PDF? What if the Output Intent is incorrect - for example suppose the Output Intent is US Web Coated (SWOP) v2 (or FOGRA27), but the piece is printing on newsprint and the images are in sRGB? The Output Intent is useful for the CMYK elements, but...

 

[mattbeals]

The CMYK output intent will describe which profile you want to separate the PDF with. You get the benefit of keeping everything RGB until the last minute and then having the OI tell the RIP, or the operator, here's the CMYK I want you to convert me to.

Here's a video that shows untagged RGB, tagged RGB and tagged CMYK being exported as a PDF/X-3:2002 using InDesign CS4. The color set up is ECI v2 RGB and GRACoL 2006 #1. The untagged RGB inherits the RGB working space in InDesign and the OI is picked up from the working CMYK space. You can change it to something else if you prefer.

Then using Callas pdfToolbox I convert to the OI. The same will work with Acrobat's built in preflight and PitStop.

Convert PDF/X-3:2002 to destinatino OI

 

[Lukas Engqvist]

The output intent is important in a repurposing. If you are using mixed RGB and CMYK where the appearance of two colours one in RGB and the other is CMYK is the same that colour relationship appearance will be maintained.
As clients give you "print ready" PDF's and colur is not "what they expect" we have to be very clear on what we have done and why we have done it. Random conversions because they seemed to help is not going to help in those arguments. I find that all too often a client will send me a SWOP file (for lack of knowing better, I am in Europe and SWOP is not the regional standard) when I have told them to make the files for uncoated stock. They insist on that they do not want to sent an open file "because they do not want the risk of it being messed up at the printer". Making them export to a PDFx, I do get a reciept what intent they had (or thought they had). I like to know what changes I make and why even when repurposing.
This is also brought about by a large number of (incompetent) consultants selling to inhouse departments the concept that if they proof inhouse then they will be able to demand that the printer will produce what looks like their inhouse proofs. It may be that the consultants are competent, but they are not able to relay all that knowledge.