Best digital press today?

stargate

Well-known member
Re: Best digital press today?

What kind of a front end do you use? How does it compare to iGen?
 
Re: Best digital press today?

For image quality you probably can't beat the HP Indigo 5000. One drawback, the ink is sensitive to scratching, so a separate UV coating or over-laminating machine is recommended. We almost went with the iGen but its larger footprint forced us to go with the slightly smaller Indigo 5000. The Screen TruePress is a DI (direct imaging) machine. I think those machines are getting squeezed out of the market as true digital machines like Indigo and iGen get faster and faster. At the same time, make-ready on 4-color offset machines is getting faster, so that leaves very little room for DI machines to exist. Besides, you can't run variable data on a DI machine. Also, HP Indigo just released the Indigo 5500 with a better paper feeder and slightly larger image area (12.49"x17.7" on 13x19 paper).
 
Re: Best digital press today?

It also depends if you like the dull muddy look of toner or waterless ink. VDP to me is a waste of time. It is aimed at junk mail. If I receive a political add in my mailbox with my name on it…so what. Even GATF is sending out brochures with my name on it and I prefer they not do that. With identity theft as rampant as it is I do not need a company sending me a printed piece with my name and address and email contact thru the mail. I just received a post card form Ptek with all my contact info in plain view inviting me to logon to my PURL site and see how great the 52DI and VDP can work together, How dare they use my name and address to push their products. They must have used a database to secure my info. Where did they buy it?
It [VDP} is just another way to sell database names and sniff our identity. Printing is to share the beauty of a printed piece not to harvest names for VDP and PURL’s.
Another question, if you research Web2Print sites they seem to demand you host on their servers. Do they harvest your printing customers also?
IMHO

Will the owners of printing companies continue to buy into the new hype of VDP? It is junk mail guys not Lithography.
 

LoneGoose

Well-known member
Re: Best digital press today?

Offset Guy, I'd love to agree with you. I, myself, am in digital printing, but I'm itching to say good riddance to this place and go off to make engraved stationery! Unfortunately we're all stuck in the rat race - it's just about the bottom line, you know? Or maybe this is a cop-out thing to say...

Oh, to get back to the thread's topic: How is the up-time on the Indigo? The NexPress may have an advantage there. The operator-servicing aspect is great; but in hindsight, a click-charge structure would be so much easier for estimating costs! When you get image artifacts on you Indigo (you do, don't you?), who fixes it? Do you have to wait for a technician to come out?
 
Re: Best digital press today?

Most of the servicing on Indigo is done by the operator. The Indigo training consists of one week of operator training, then one week of maintenance training within six months. The up-time on the Indigo 5000 has been pretty good, especially compared to our previous digital press, the Indigo 1000. But, I think it's hard to compare up-times unless you've worked with both machines being compared.

In response to Offset Guy's comment about muddy toner, I agree that most digital presses give the thick, muddy toner look, but the Indigo 5000 doesn't give that look. The advantage that Indigo has is that they're suspending their toner particles in liquid (mineral oil). From what I understand, it allows Indigo to make a smaller toner particle than is possible in dry toner machines, which have to use hepa filters to filter the toner out of the air inside the machine. If the dry toner particle is made too small, it passes through the hepa filter instead of being caught by it.
 

LoneGoose

Well-known member
Re: Best digital press today?

So the operator can do most servicing him/herself? That sounds pretty good. Indigo has really impressed me over the last year. The label press would be the bomb for our business (we're in a central wine-producing area).

What sort of image artifacts / defects does one most experience on the Indigo? On the NexPress, our demon is streaking. Mostly to do with fuser-oil contamination, general wear 'n tear etc. Also registration when printing small type in colour (especially knock-out). The indigo only has one blanket cylinder, doesn't it? So, no registration hassles?

What is the greatest caliper of paper that the digital presses out there can handle? On the NexPress (2100 classic) it's 0.35mm.
 

mikemin

New member
Re: Best digital press today?

*As an owner of a HP Indigo 5000, scratching is usually caused by incorrect adjustment and is not a problem with the equipment.*

We are Digital Printing Business in Australia and we operate two Digital Presses that compliment each other
# Indigo 5000 - for shorter runs and personalization including [Direct Smile|http://www.digiwedoo.com.au/content/view/50/52/|Direct Smile] Software
# Ryobi DI 3403 for our longer runs... say, up to 100,000
Both pressers work very well and we have won many awards for our printing quality both locally and Nationally.

[www.digiwedoo.com.au|http://www.digiwedoo.com.au|Digi we doo]
 

mikemin

New member
Re: Best digital press today?

Hp Indigo 5000 scratching relates to POST PRESS scratching not scratching during the printing process and this is also is not a problem.
 
Re: Best digital press today?

The Screen True Press 344 is a great machine. Sharp colors and a great company backs it.
Do not believe all the DI hype....unless you want to print junk mail than a lower end machine is your best choice.
 

DigiLab

New member
Re: Best digital press today?

There isn’t really any best digital press around. It all depend on the market that you want to go for, we got iGEN because we are not going for the best color output. We wanted something easy to maintain and a strong color consistency. We have an Oce CPS900 for texture print for shorter print volume. They combination suit our business strategy perfectly.
 

ian

Well-known member
Re: Best digital press today?

You have a very tricky question here.. depending on your needs you have a few options
1. Small volumes - Xerox DC242 - 13" x 19" sheet or the Minolta 6500. The Minolta is flat without a shine but great for solids
2. Medium volumes - Xerox DC5000 / 7000 / 8000 - The new Canon/Kodak M70 (kodak has no shine, 5000 throws on too much oil)
3. High volume - IGen3 - HP Indigo 5500

If you have the money and want the best quality possible get the HP5500.. haven't seen anything like it yet.. the cons are the image scratches off when mailing if not varnish plus the cost of production is almost double that of an igen3. You will need a really good operator/Mechanic to run the HP

If your volumes are short - less than 20K per month then get the DC242 with the largecap tray to feed oversize sheets.
Also make sure you know your postpress functions.. there are problems with UV coating with some toners/oil/wax issues. Some toners will melt in the heat. We ran a label for a client canon which runs at higher temperatures and that solved the melting issue but caused other ones.

There is no perfect digital machine.. they all have flaws, you have to understand the work you have and then decide on which is the best choice.
We have a Xerox 6060, DC242, 3 cannon 3220's and a Ryobi DI. The strange part is only 15-20% of our work is digital (toner based), while 70% of the work is offset and DI work. Make sure you dont spend too much money on toner based technology hoping the work will show up at your door step.
 

Richard N

New member
Re: Best digital press today?

Hello all, my first post.

After two weeks of operation I must toss the NexPress 2500 into this discussion.
WOW what a piece of equipment!!!

Just a note, I did not have to pay for the press. $400k US. I just work here.

No wonder the print market here (San Francisco bay area) is so weak.
Fast, and exceptional quality.

-Richard
 

Mel

New member
Re: Best digital press today?

New to the industry- finding your conversation interesting. Offset Guy- being an "offset guy" if you HAD to go digital and still target commercial print markets- what would be your "dream" machine? Is it possible to create a digital press and market to traditional 'Offset Guys"? Is it possible for offset and digital to get along?
 
Re: Best digital press today?

Offset and digital already get along. A good CTP and a real offset press will do the job. If you mean a press with the CTP built in that images the plates on press I would recomend the TP344.

The others I put in the copier category. Toner and waterless ink. If your customers accept the quality from these machines than go for it.

I still believe Ink Jet will be the future. They have nozzles of power we have not seen yet.

OG
 

ace

Member
Re: Best digital press today?

All,

Looking at Digital print pre DRUPA 08.
Checking out the following:
Xeikon 8000
Kodak Nexpress 3000
iGen
HP Indigo 5500 / 7000

would appreciate if any of you have had experience across these devices. On the Kodak / HP / Xerox which combo did you use on the front end. What Pro & Con's did you experience.

a.
 

ASM

Well-known member
Re: Best digital press today?

Ace, also worth checking at Drupa is the Oce ColorStream 10000. 170ppm full colour, duplex and an amazing feature that speeds the press up to around 800ppm when mono pages are detected - and you only pay a mono click. With a lot of work CMYK covers and B&W text, this is a great feature. Oce is the quiet achiever in digital printing and rarely features in discussions but I'm backing them to wow Drupa with this and also the JetSTream 1100/2200 - a 2,000ppm inkjet baby for the Transpromo market.
Their duty cycles are way up there too...5 million a month for ColorStream and 60 (yes) million a month for the JetSTream.
 

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