CMYK to Pantone converter

xMattx

New member
Hello everyone,

I stumbled upon your old forum when i searched for a CMYK to Pantone converter on google. I've read a bit about projects from people who made software to convert CMYK colours to Pantone colours. It got me really interested, but the forum is closed by now and the users have moved over to this one.. I can't find the topics anymore though, although there are a lot of other topics about the same subject over here. There are in fact so many different topics that i don't know where to look anymore. that's why i made this topic. (I hope that i'm posting it in the right section, and that it is not asked 100 times already.. =$)

What i'm looking for is a way to convert the screen colours (CMYK) to print colours (Pantone). I'm totally new to this whole Pantone thing, so i don't know if this is the right thing and if it even excists.. I'm a starting graphic designer and i've designed a few things for websites. But there are customers who ask for printable designs. So i asked around and some people told me that i needed to buy a Pantone colour fan since the screen colours are different from the printed colours. But I can't really afford a fan like that, so i'm looking for software that does the same.

I'd be very happy if anyone could help me with this. Is there any software that can help me with this?

Thank you very much,
Matt
 
Re: CMYK to Pantone converter

Unless they specifically ask for spot colors, I'd make everything process (CMYK). Then it's a simple RGB to CMYK conversion. Make sure your images are of high enough resolution to print (I'd suggest 300 dpi or so), otherwise, the colors may be right, but your images will look like hell.

As far as finding a cheap (or free) online resource, I'm aware that there used to be RGB to Pantone or CMYK to Pantone lookup tables online, but Pantone put the smack down on them and forced them to quit making them available.

Your best bet may be to bite the bullet and get a Pantone book.

http://www.pantone.com/pages/products/product.aspx?pid=14&ca=1

Or, visit a local printer. Tell them you're just starting out (and could possible throw some printing their way) and want to know if they have any of their old color books laying around that you could have. They may not be as accurate or have all the colors as the newest books do, but at least it's free!
 
Re: CMYK to Pantone converter

The PMS to CMYK conversion really depends on (nowadays) what the software library you are referencing uses. Most of the DTP apps (Illus, InDesign, Quark, etc) have built in libraries, and Adobe (as near as I can tell) does not even attempt to unify the conversion definitions within its own umbrella of applications.
Proofing systems used to have their own CMYK equivalents, but the last generation or so seem to go to a LAB base and then convert (many with an expanded gamut) to a C, ltC, M, ltM, Y, K, ltK. Inkjets seem to have completely independent libraries, so I have either eyeballed a match (as near as is possible) using a Pantone Spot Swatch book and cross referencing it to a built gamut CMYK chart. If the color is not life-or-death critical, I will generally go with whatever app library I am using, and then go through ALL the files used in the job to make sure they ALL have the same CMYK values (Illus, PShop and Quark all have differential values, and unless you leave them all as Pantone and have your RIP convert all to the RIP defaults, you will have slightly different colors throughout.
Now that there is the Pantone GOE book, I think we might all hang ourselves-as the number and complexity of the gamut is MUCH larger than the old Pantone standard.
 
Re: CMYK to Pantone converter

@Kevin Delay: So you advise me to just use CMYK colours? I've heard from people that this methode gives all wrong colours to the printed work.. I want to be really professional with this so they need to be exact/very close..

@ wrightr2: I think that i don't really get all of that. But are you advising me to just use the softwares library? I'm using illustrator to make my designs.
 
Re: CMYK to Pantone converter

The Pantone library contains colors you cannot make using CMYK colorants. For example, what might be called fire-engine red -- Pantone 185 -- cannot be duplicated in the CMYK world. The closest you can come is 100% magenta plus 100% yellow (which, by the way, is Pantone 485).

There are many more such examples, so an "automated" colorspace transform -- especially one that honors limitations of SWOP, which most CMYK transforms do -- just isn't possible.

--Scott Tilden

Edited by: Scott W Tilden on Jul 15, 2008 9:30 AM
 
Re: CMYK to Pantone converter

When you say "screen color (CMYK)" are you referring to what you see on the monitor/screen or the CMYK percentage values?

If you are referring to how something looks on your monitor, the problem lies not in converting RGB (which is what your monitor displays, not CMYK) to Pantone, but the fact that all monitors are going to display the colors differently no matter what values you use. I would suggest having the client select whatever PMS color(s) they want for the printing part, then using the RGB values of that Pantone color for your web design. That way, at least all your printing elements will match each other. There is no way that every monitor is going to render the web pages accurately anyway. You may have your monitor dead on as far as matching the Pantone color, but I guarantee you, the computer right next to yours is going to display it differently.

So, basically, what I'm trying to say is to work the other way around. Select your Pantone colors for the printed materials first, then try to match your web design to the printed piece.
 
Re: CMYK to Pantone converter

> {quote:title=xMattx wrote:}{quote}
> What i'm looking for is a way to convert the screen colours (CMYK) to print colours (Pantone).

Do you have Photoshop? You can do that there.
 
Re: CMYK to Pantone converter

Hi Matt,


To best answer your question, perhaps it might help us to know exactly what the design will be used for !

You mention that you work with Adobe Illustrator - when you select a Pantone color, are you paying attention to which library ?

Can I assume you know that you can work in either RGB or CMYK "mode" with a document ( Under the *File* menu, select *Document Color Mode*, then select CMYK)

Also, what are the settings when you go under the *Edit* menu, then select *Color settings* ?

All these are very important, and the reason there are settings (as opposed to having on single setting that can't hard wired) depends on how the design will be used finally ! for example - Will your project(s) be printed on Coated or Uncoated stock ?

I imagine that the reason you are having a hard time finding any discussion about designers working with CMYK then switching to Pantone is that this neither logical or in any way very efficient - as I can only simulate about 42 or 48% of the Pantone library using CMYK builds (this depends on the libary)

It seems odd to me that someone would actually 'want' something that would convert an object of type that was designed as a CMYK tint build and ask that that object be 'converted' into a spot color, since illustrator offers the Pantone Libray in the application and you can simply start buy seleecting pantone colors directly !

Under the *Windows* menu item, select *Swatch Libraries*, then cascade select - *well, now here we go...*

For example, if you are designing an ad that will be then placed into a national title (like people magazine of sports Illustrated) - as the final PDF file that needs to be CMYK (as the final output will be CMYK printing) and meet the requirements of PDF/X-1a, then perhaps it is best to avoid working with Pantone colors in the first place or at lease use Windows > Swatch Libraries > *Pantone Process Coated (or uncoated)* - or Pantone Solid to Process

In another scenario, if you are working on a pacage design for Kellogg breakfast cereal and the design requires a Disney Character, you may be required to use actual Pantone SPOT colors, (-- Windows > Swatch Libraries > *Pantone Process Coated (or uncoated)* )as the final output will be spot color printing using Pantone inks (perhaps requiring PDF/X-3)

Hope this helps !
 
Re: CMYK to Pantone converter

If you can't afford $80 for arguably the most important color tool a graphic designer will ever need, then please do us all a favor and stick to web design. You'll spend far more than $80 in color adjustment fees from your printer on your first job.

Get the Pantone Color Bridge or Solid to Process color imaging guide which shows the pantone swatch next to the CMYK equivalent. It's a real eye opener when you see the color shifts. You'll never design a piece using a CMYK orange again.

If you think you can cut corners on an industry standard that exists solely for the purpose of maintaining color consistency on press, you're drinking the bong water.

Just keepin' it real!

Edited by: LoweringTheBar on Jul 15, 2008 1:58 PM
 
Re: CMYK to Pantone converter

Hi Matt,
If you have Photoshop software you can create the color in the Color Picker and the info pallete associated with the Color Picker under Custom Color will convert your color to any number of ink manufacturing companies,i.e. Pantone, Toyo, HK, Focaltone etc.
 
Re: CMYK to Pantone converter

Matt --

If you want to get into using PMS colors, also called "spot colors," you will need to get hold of a swatchbook. That is, after all, the whole point of the system: having a reference guide so that you can communicate about color and +know+ how the printed piece is supposed to look.

There is a swatchbook called the *Pantone Color Bridge*. It has PMS and CMYK swatches side by side so you can see how well the colors match; plus it gives RGB and HTML values for each color, so you can compare to what you are using in your web design. You can shop around online and get one for as little as $50 - $60. It was previously known as the "Solid to Process Guide," but that doesn't have the information you need.

If you go to the [Pantone web site|http://www.pantone.com] , you can sign up for a web site called "myPantone." One of the perks there is a free download called myPantone Palettes. It's a nifty tool that lets you create color palettes from either a color wheel or a graphic or photograph. It will also let you use a color picker to sample swatches, and create a palette for you, while giving you info on the color values you've picked.
 
Re: CMYK to Pantone converter

Matt -

I think the whole point you are missing is this:

Is the project you are creating going to be printed on a printing press?

If so, then what are the parameters you were given for producing the work? If your client wants a two-color job, then you should use the two inks that he (or the print shop who will be producing the work) specified (say, for instance, black and PMS 194).

If he wants a "full color" printed product, then you should use cmyk color builds and you can use either pre-made ones (such as the Pantone color builds) or make your own in Illustrator (or pick out of the color picker).

If your client is only going to print out of a color printer, then you can use cmyk OR rgb (they are easily converted one to the other).

For web work, you'd use rgb.

For other specialty work, such as producing art for vinyl lettering, you'd set up the files according to the end-producer. For instance, sometimes for vinyl lettering, I use Pantone colors that the shop told me are closest to the color of the vinyl. You need to be talking to the production shop BEFORE you start a job, so that it's set up right from the very beginning.

A word of caution: If you are selling yourself as a graphic designer or graphic artist, though, and you don't understand the basics of cmyk, rgb and spot colors (such as Pantone), then you need to back up and go BACK to the basics and get a firm understanding of those before you jump into making money doing layouts. You are going to have very unhappy clients if there are all sorts of production issues because they can't produce your files.

-Lynn
 
Re: CMYK to Pantone converter

All good advice given to this point.

I think maybe the real disconnect here is your need to understand the terminology and use of spot color vs. process color and when to use each, according to the specs of the job you are doing.

Also, the proper use of RGB vs. CMYK color spaces and when those are appropriate.

I also agree that you MUST have a PMS book if you have any hope of getting this right.

Education is important!
 
Re: CMYK to Pantone converter

Thank you everyone! The information that has been given in this topic has really helped me a lot. At the moment i'm still a student and i've been designing around for digital purposes. The reason why i asked this question is that i've read about this pantone converting system on the old forum. I was curious about this system because i wanted to buy a Pantone Colour Guide. But when i saw the $300 pricetag, i just couldn't afford it. I didn't know that there were cheaper variants in the market. The information that i've read in this topic was VERY usefull to me. i'm not an expert at all in this kind of business (i'm still a student and i'm still learning a LOT about this) Michael Jahn's post really helped me out a lot!

Thank you all very very much for the information! I've now realised that i actually have to have a printed version of the Pantone colours (because, as you all said, my screen won't show the real colours).

Thank you all very much!
Matt
 
Re: CMYK to Pantone converter

Dear Matt:

I wanted to give you some additonal information.

As a student, you may purchase PANTONE products at special student discount prices from the following companies:

JourneyEd: http://www.journeyed.com

Torcom/Studica: http://www.studica.com

Both sites will require proof of active student status in order to process your order.

Please note also that, if you have CMYK values and are looking for a 'starting point' color, you can use Adobe Photoshop, or more accurately, the Adobe Color Picker, to find a 'close' PANTONE color from a set of CMYK values. If you have Photoshop and would like to know how to do this, you can submit a question at our support Web site - http://www.askpantone.com - and we will be happy to assist you. I should point out that such 'conversions' are mathematical, not visual, and should be used as a starting point only.

Best of luck to you in your endeavors!

Best regards,

John Stanzione
Manager - Technical Support
Pantone, Inc.
 
Re: CMYK to Pantone converter

Hello Matt,
This is a great question. First of all...a few basics. The color you see on your screen (screen color) has a real value that is describe in terms of "lab" (a 3-dimensional color definition system). You don't necessarily need to know what Lab is, but do need to recognize that the color you see has some root definition. By accepting this, you are on your way to managing color from any place to any place.

OK. Now that you have accepted this, let's talk about how things work in an application such as Photoshop. In PS, you will likely have an image loaded that is comprised of either RGB or CMYK pixels. The RGB or CMYK values by themselves do not determine the "root color value". However, the RGB or CMYK values, combined with an ICC profile will exactly determine that value. Some documents have profiles embedded (or assigned) to them. If they have not, Photoshop will appoint one (the court will appoint you an attorney....) to the file. This "appointment" is determine by your color settings in PS.

So...the RGB or CMYK in your file is translated to "Lab" by PS, which is then dent to your display where another profile will convert it into RGBeez that will accurately reproduce the color on your display (hopefully, you have made a custom profile for your display...that's another topic).

If you want to find the closest Pantone color for a particular CMYK recipe, you will need to know the ICC profile that goes with it (just like Photoshop). There are tools that will then pick the closest Pantone color for you, according to the values you have defined (ColorMunki Create can do this). You can also do the reverse: pick a Pantone color and translate into the CMYK of a specific colorspace (ICC profile).

Once you buy all this, it may seem logical that named colors may work the same way. In InDesign...for example....you can define a color as a "Pantone". In doing so, the application will assign a Lab value to it (that what software manufacturers pay license fees to Pantone for), which can then be routed accurately to the display or printed accurately on your printer.

Considering that Pantone is now owned by X-Rite, you might want to contact X-Rite about your specific application of spot colors. There's a few tools that you might find of interest. Just remember that color is really defined in Lab, not RGB or CMYK. When you see it on screen, you are seeing RGBeez that were made from that Lab for your monitor. When you print it, that lab needs to get to CMYK somehow. Understanding that this is all linked will give you a great shot at getting the color you want.

Also, feel free to contact me directly with additional questions.

Good luck!

Marc Levine
Color Management Group
[email protected]
 
Re: CMYK to Pantone converter

Thanks for the links! I don't know if i can buy anything with discount since i'm a dutch student, but i'll most definatly try!
Thanks!
 
Re: CMYK to Pantone converter

A very unexpensive and very usefull tool for many color conversions is a software called Colorshop. It can go LAB or CMYK or RGB to Pantone even indicating the deltaE. Also, when converting TO CMYK, it allows you to be specific to any CMYL ICC profile you may wantbto target to.
Hope this helps.
Luc St-Pierre
 
Re: CMYK to Pantone converter

If you work in web site design you may not realize that when printing CMYK you are building colors from those four standard industry printing colors: Cyan,Magenta,Yellow and Black. In printing everything is created with dots to form the combine colors patterns giving you graphics and pictures. When you are printing a large area or want to regulate a specific color such as a logo color within a logo, you might wish to assign a pantone color to it. This equates to a 'spot color' and is a seperate, and in most cases additional printing plate beyond the cmyk 4. When this 5th color prints it will not be comprised of dots but as a solid color, unless you request a screen of that color to be built. Regardless even at any other percentage of that color 3-100% it will only have the spot pms color. It is not built from the other standard printing colors.

If you are a designer, you need to make sure you are working from Pantone colors as these are the industry standard across many media of design. Know that you can get a pantone fan book that indicates the Pantone or aka PMS color next to the 4/c CMYK conversion. This will give you a feel for how close the printed piece will reflect the PMS color and you can decide if it is worth printing a 5th color on press in addition to your CMYK.

I hope this has helped.
 

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