Color Issues w/Konica Minolta

PrePress Gal

Active member
Using Adobe CS4, Quark 8.02, Mac G-4, 10.4.11.
Outputting to Konica Minolta, BizHub PRO 6500 using Creo Server IC-304 Print Controller v2.

We are having more and more problems arising with color shifting, noise behind logos, file errors, image boxes showing up as screened box or a line on one side or the other. It seems what works one time, does not the next.

Anyone else having major issues outputting? We just switched from CS2 to CS4 and it seems to have gotten worse. We are trying one thing or the other with each file until something works. I am not the main person outputting on the press, I just send the files. Is there a lot more involved at the server level in outputting these files? In training, we just got the basic run through and simple color adjustment.

Anyone having problems with this also?

Thanks.
 

UberTech

Well-known member
Do you have the service pack also? Most of what your saying is resolved with the service pack.
 

Craig

Well-known member
Do you have the service pack also? Most of what your saying is resolved with the service pack.

Uber, I thought Random already covered all known issues with KM's. Their operator related, remember, KM's are 100% without troubles. :rolleyes:
 

UberTech

Well-known member
Yes.

IC 304 v2.0

Windows XP Service Pack 2, v5.1

Under the creo software help menu there should be an 'about' option. This will bring up your patch state. If it doesn't say anything about a service pack in there then you in for a world of hurt cause V2 with no SP is a complete dog. Regardless of operator!
 

PrePress Gal

Active member
Service Pack

Service Pack

In the Creo Window it lists these items:

SW Packages: blank

Updates:
Printer Driver 6-08
RIP patch 7-08
Profile 7-08
Saddle Stitch 7-08
Scan patch 7-08
Inserts Patch 7-08
EPS Header Patch 7-08
Import Color Prof 8-08
RIP Patch 8-08
Lines Patch 9-08

Should it list the Service Pack 2 in here?
 

PrePress Gal

Active member
Another quick question: Operator indicates the machine pauses frequently and does it's own calibration, so he never does an "off the glass calibration". Do you know what he is talking about. The only calibration methods I can find in the book are off the glass and device tool.
 

Craig

Well-known member
Another quick question: Operator indicates the machine pauses frequently and does it's own calibration, so he never does an "off the glass calibration". Do you know what he is talking about. The only calibration methods I can find in the book are off the glass and device tool.

It more than likely is laying down color patches and reading the densities. You will still need to calibrate from the print engine to the front end. 2 different calibrations, usually calibrate the print engine first, then the front end to it more than likely you will have a spectrometer to do this.
 

Kevin H

Active member
Using Adobe CS4, Quark 8.02, Mac G-4, 10.4.11.
Outputting to Konica Minolta, BizHub PRO 6500 using Creo Server IC-304 Print Controller v2.

We are having more and more problems arising with color shifting, noise behind logos, file errors, image boxes showing up as screened box or a line on one side or the other. It seems what works one time, does not the next.

Anyone else having major issues outputting? We just switched from CS2 to CS4 and it seems to have gotten worse. We are trying one thing or the other with each file until something works. I am not the main person outputting on the press, I just send the files. Is there a lot more involved at the server level in outputting these files? In training, we just got the basic run through and simple color adjustment.

Anyone having problems with this also?

Thanks.

All those issues can be resolved.
It sounds like you need to get some "advanced" training scheduled.

A better understanding of the advanced features will allow you to recognise issues and select the correct options to resolve.

A bit of advise is to create PDFs of the files and import them into the Creo directly. This will help with the CS4 issues. The fact it has gotten worse when you switched to the latest version tells me that there is not a full understanding of how the Adobe settings affect/translate into the Creo. Colour handling, simulate overprint, etc in Adobe paly an important role when sending to a digital device.

Calibration with the handheld is quite sufficient.
 

PrePress Gal

Active member
Thanks Kevin. I am continuing to read the book and am finding some settings that may indeed solve some of these issues.

KM is scheduling someone from CREO to come out for training the first part of July.

My problem is, why aren't our Konica people familiar with these problems and the settings on the CREO designed to deal with some of these very issues? Initial training did not cover any of this.

Am I to assume the "advanced training" will help us with any issues that may be originating on the Adobe end or is there somewhere I can go to find the best way to send Adobe files to digital output?

Do you have any guidelines as to PDF settings we should be using?

Lots of questions, I know, but some of this is beginning to make sense now.

Thanks!
 

smatros

Well-known member
we sometimes run into many of described problems with Xerox 700 and Creo controller. I found the easiest way to avoid problems is to create pdfs in PDF X1a 2003 standard. Sometimes (especially when printing smaller photos, that shouldn't be converted to CMYK in prepress but kept as RGB and leave the machine to do the conversion) it is necessary to avoid it, but otherwise X1a reduced our problems for over 70%.
 

UberTech

Well-known member
In the Creo Window it lists these items:

SW Packages: blank

Updates:
Printer Driver 6-08
RIP patch 7-08
Profile 7-08
Saddle Stitch 7-08
Scan patch 7-08
Inserts Patch 7-08
EPS Header Patch 7-08
Import Color Prof 8-08
RIP Patch 8-08
Lines Patch 9-08

Should it list the Service Pack 2 in here?

You don't have the service pack. The service pack will remove all of these patches and apply one big revision. Again, ver2 was very buggy until the service pack so the good news is things are going to get a hell of alot better.

Your comment about calibration is a bit of a concern and hopefully your training will shed some light on some of the problems you are having. Doesn't sound like your getting the best out of the machine.
 

Craig

Well-known member
My problem is, why aren't our Konica people familiar with these problems and the settings on the CREO designed to deal with some of these very issues? Initial training did not cover any of this.

Am I to assume the "advanced training" will help us with any issues that may be originating on the Adobe end or is there somewhere I can go to find the best way to send Adobe files to digital output?

This is not a flame for KM but your dealer and MANY others. Almost everyone I have dealt with in regards to SALES and SERVICE know little to nothing about the machines and how to run them. Let me explain before you flame.

SALES - I just talked to an OCE salesman who looked very familiar to me.... come to find out that just a few weeks before, he visited my shop trying to sell INSURANCE to us!!! Now he is an "expert" in digital presses?????? Enough said on sales!

SERVICE - In my opinion their job is to FIX the thing when it breaks. Most are required to have the ability to fix MANY models, both B/W and Color. They should not have the job of "training" an operator on how to operate the device. They have enough headaches dealing with the mechanical stuff let alone the operation.

Now, some will have an "IT" guy who comes in and does the network hook-up, now he/she is responsible for the connection and setting up the drivers. Maybe they know a little something about how the device runs, maybe not.

So that leaves "us" to figure the rest out on our own. What good is it to have a sales or service person who may or may not fully understand how to operate the device "train" us on how to run them?

What dealer or manufacture for that matter has an individual(s) who operate a device for 8 to 10 hours a day, running the myriad of stuff through it that we as printers do? How would they go about "Advance" training if they did?
 

UberTech

Well-known member
We have IT people and Analysts. I don't think we have ever sent an IT tech to a Production install or break down. An install is menial task for an analyst but I (personally) hate the rotisserie install method of tech->it->analyst so we make sure the tech and the analyst install at the same time.

Any problems with the rip side are delt with by the analyst. We only bring the vendors in when ours or our customers expectations aren't being met.
 

CSimpson

Well-known member
Does Xerox have the same sales and service business model? I don't hear as many service complaints on Xerox as I do KM!

I worked for Xerox for 6 years and can say they are all the same in this regard. As an employee I was put in the position of being an "Expert" on a product many times that I had never seen before. Just always remember no copier/printer company has an operator division that is part of the sales or install team, so no one there can really attest to the operation of the equipment.

Sales always has a tendency to promise the moon and service always has a tendency to under sell a product's capabilities. These tendencies are the nature of the business. You just have to know that and be prepared for it.
 

PrePress Gal

Active member
Thanks you guys. You have provided me with some very good insight.
First things we need to look into is the service pack an how we make our PDFs.

Have a great day!
 

Craig

Well-known member
PrePress Gal,
The way you make you PDF should have little to do with anything. If you are using the same PDF to go to offset then it will work for digital.
 

PrePress Gal

Active member
Then we should be just dandy then because offset is not a problem. Our guy from Konica is trying to blame Quark 8, which we just upgraded to. He is not listening to me when I tell him we had this problem BEFORE Quark and Creative Suite upgrades. I will do some reading and see if there is anything I am doing incorrectly in creating my PDFs.

Thanks.
 

Craig

Well-known member
Then we should be just dandy then because offset is not a problem. Our guy from Konica is trying to blame Quark 8, which we just upgraded to. He is not listening to me when I tell him we had this problem BEFORE Quark and Creative Suite upgrades. I will do some reading and see if there is anything I am doing incorrectly in creating my PDFs.

Thanks.

It's ALWAYS someone elses fault! Next they will blame the paper!!!
 

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