Graphic design/Marketing company looking for advice on a digtal press.

Abew

Member
HI, everyone. We are a small graphic design/Marketing company, we outsource our clients digital printing, and VDP, we would like to do it in house and make the profit, and have more quality control.

We looked into several different engines from Xerox 700, Canon C1+, and Konica Minolta Bizhub 6500 Pro, HP Indigo is out of the question its too expensive to buy and to operate although we like the output, we wish that HP would have made something in this arena.

The Xerox 700 seems to be best option for the price point, quality and speed and front end support.

We already contacted a Xerox salesman, we knew beforehand what to expect of a salesman, we knew not to have a closed mind and buy everything what he says, but we spoke to the graphic arts specialists, I asked him a lot of questions/concerns, that has been brought up here on these forums, and answered me gladly, he told me that almost all the glitches and bugs has been straighten out form the initial release (I just hope he is right).

The GA specialist recommended me the Creo XEROX CX Print Server over EFI, they also have a special for little while more, the Advanced Color Tools Package and Advanced Productivity Package plus Darwin Desktop.
What we would like to know from users of both EFI and Creo whats the difference and benefit in workflow and quality, and Darwin over Xmpie, we haven't used neither of them so we want advice.

Also the finishing options on the Xerox 700 are quite affordable, we know that offline finishing might be better but more expensive.
He also recommended me a Small format UV Coater (I asked for) that is very affordable he didn’t have more information when we spoke to him but he told me he’ll follow up with.

So we would like to gather the most information and advice from all users and experts on the front end side and the back end side, we still have an open mind to listen what other options we can get, but we are on a budget.

Thank you very much, your help will be greatly appreciated.:)
 
What we would like to know from users of both EFI and Creo whats the difference and benefit in workflow and quality, and Darwin over Xmpie, we haven't used neither of them so we want advice.

EFI vs CREO : both can do pretty much the same; it's being said that Fiery is more user friendly, while CREO is more powerful. Both statements are relative. From a personal point of view, I like the Imposition tools on the Fiery much better than the CREO, they are more flexible; while I like the CREO image and color quality to be more accurate and controllable.

Also, if you are going to do a lot of VDP, I would recommend to stay with CREO. The VDP platform it has processes jobs faster.

Darwin vs XMPie : I think XMPie is a more robust and scalable platform. You can start with XMPie uDirect to start doing simple VDP jobs and grow with different modules that include web, PURLs and cross media marketing. Darwin Pro out of the box, can do Personalized Images, which is a really nice feature to have. From a cost perspective, once you get Darwin Pro, you get all the functionality for one price. With XMPie, each additional module will cost you more $.
 
Do yourself and company a favor and continue to outsource your print. I don't know how many times I've seen small graphic design companies saddle themselves with monthly payments and maintenance expenses only to regret it. If quality is a problem - try another vendor. All the equipment listed is "good enough". I like Xerox and HP. We've found Creo far more reliable than Fiery. We have both. Better features on Fiery. Darwin is BASIC but sound. XMpie is great. Check out NowDocs with the XMpie features built in. I really liked it. However, I'd recommend on concentrating on what you do best and leave the print and finishing to somebody else!
 
I second DocuPlanet.

Also I'd like to add - do you have the expertise in-house to run a printer? You don't just click 'go' you know. And when you add up the cost of hiring someone, or training someone (and diverting them from design) and buying the printer and paying the contract and buying the finishing equipment and buying the paper stocks and spending the time doing the work - is it really worth it? I mean, really?

By all means go ahead, but be prepared to sacrifice a fair whack of time, resources, space and sanity to setting up your in-plant.
 
I agree with the two previous posts.
Continuing to outsource is probably your best bet.
Let the lease payments, buying the paper, troubleshooting the machine and dealing with potentially shady copier salespeople remain someone else's headache.
Having said that, if you're really bent on getting your own, stay the expletive away from Konica Minolta. We have an Ikon branded version of a KM, and it is mighty horrible. Another one of our stores has an actual KM, and it's better.. but still not quite what was expected.
 
I second DocuPlanet.

Also I'd like to add - do you have the expertise in-house to run a printer? You don't just click 'go' you know. And when you add up the cost of hiring someone, or training someone (and diverting them from design) and buying the printer and paying the contract and buying the finishing equipment and buying the paper stocks and spending the time doing the work - is it really worth it? I mean, really?

By all means go ahead, but be prepared to sacrifice a fair whack of time, resources, space and sanity to setting up your in-plant.

VERY good bit of advice.

I know for a fact this is the root of many issues customers have with digital output devices.

They have seen samples and like what they see, but do not know how to make it happen for them in their own shop. Planning to bring any services in-house MUST be accompanied by an "expert" or be prepared to spend about 6 months getting to know your device.

Your customer will not stand for a change/drop in quality of output and will soon find someone else.

Another post comments on using am rebranded KM product through IKON. I would say the the recent history of IKON speaks for itself in that story. They had limited resources and had to spread these across many machines or different manufacturers.

If a customer says to me that the KM is not performing as "expected", then i blame the Sales rep for not doing his job properly.
 
Haven't read the post fully but I'd warn about getting a rebranded KM through IKON... Even KM can't service it since the parts are keyed differently so your stuck with IKON regardless of the job they do servicing it. If you get a real KM machine at least you have choices...
 
This is a typical problem, that is pretty significant that a lot of people have brought up in the forum before.

Just because it looks easy and you can push a little green button to make stuff print nice in a demo doesn't mean it will. There are lots of factors your company should be looking at, i.e. overhead, training, paper prices, contract prices what your break even is...

All digital manufactures make it sound like a digital press can fit into a lot of businesses and they can, just don't get stuck in the hype. Digital manufactures are pushing their machines into every place they can, that's what they do.. sell stuff, they just don't care to who.

I'll give you our company's digital experience. We are a traditional book printer who has been in business since 1927, we got into digital printing because we felt we could sustain it with our existing client demand. Coming from traditional offset to digital printing was a big leap for us, lots of stuff to learn... Digital isn't offset, it's been almost a year and we are finally starting to break even with the machine, a Xerox 242--Similar to the 700, learn all the ropes, learn the different prepress needs etc, binding and finishing.

To be honest, don't be fooled by the finishing capabilities on the machine, I gaurtee your digital print vendor is finishing offline or near line. The booklet makers on the machine are a joke, and if you are concerned about quality then finish offline where you have better control.

It isn't the Digital Mahine that costs so much its the staffing, training, supplies and offline equipment equipment needed to produce quality products plus the time it will take to learn it. If you are going to do it, then do it. Don't go half way, or else you'll regret it.
 
from personal experience, I've seen that is much harder for traditional offset printers to move into digital. it's a whole new and different concept; digital printing is a new way of business they are not used to.

on the other side, marketing firms, advertising and/or graphic design shops move and learn digital printing fairly quickly from what I've seen.

I've seen a couple of companies literally start from zero, both bought a Xerox DocuColor 12 some years ago to start the business, then upgraded quickly to a Xerox DocuColor 250 when it came out, and now both of them already upgraded to a Xerox 700. Their mindset is different from traditional offset printers.

traditional offset printers are usually concerned about minimizing that extra penny in their cost per print; while other types of customers are looking into more valuable and profitable jobs like VDP and cross marketing.

again, just personal experience.
 

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