Help for newb! Saddle stiched booklets

[wentworth]

Hi guys,

Im new to the forums and wondering if you can help me. I design posters, invitations etc and am currently doing a wedding. I need to do 100 saddle stitched ceremony booklets.
I wasnt planning on purchasing one of those booklet collators or anything like that. I was assuming with my scoring machine and a long arm stapler i could sort it all out.

But then i got to wondering a bit.
The booklet cover will be printed from 300gsm/140lb sra3 or a3+ as you might call it. 2 covers per sheet, trimmed to size.
The inside pages i was assuming would just be standard copy paper....
But when it folds, will i have a creep problem? is it an issue? There are not usually many pages in this type of booklet. Is there a better method? should i print the inside pages on sra3 size also and then score/staple and trim the whole lot to size?
I was thinking it could be a little tricky lining it all up if using untrimmed sheets to make the booklet.
Im a little confused in what order this should all happen. Any advice would be awesome.

 

[MrKarter77]

Easiest way would be to trim to say A4 score at A5 then stitch, then fold over and trim the creep off

 

[wentworth]

Easiest way would be to trim to say A4 score at A5 then stitch, then fold over and trim the creep off

thanks for the reply. So simple. Maybe im over thinking it but ive never done them and want them to look the goods. Should i try and trim a sliver of the cover also so that its all even?

 

[Rikkie]

Ideally, you would be printing oversize with score and trim marks. you can then score and stitch / fold oversize and trim the folded booklet back (3 sides) to your final size. It helps to stack your folded books overnight with a nice hefty weight on the spine to get them to lay flat before trimming (We put them in a padding clamp for an hour or two, which works fine)

 

[wentworth]

Ideally, you would be printing oversize with score and trim marks. you can then score and stitch / fold oversize and trim the folded booklet back (3 sides) to your final size. It helps to stack your folded books overnight with a nice hefty weight on the spine to get them to lay flat before trimming (We put them in a padding clamp for an hour or two, which works fine)

Thanks Rikkie. So if i did this id just have to make sure the cover & the inside pages were imposed on sra3 in the exact same position?
And would you cut them in a ream/stack cutter guillotine in a stack of booklets or 1 at a time. Im yet to purchase a guillotine and looking at them as we speak.

 

[wentworth]

Ideally, you would be printing oversize with score and trim marks. you can then score and stitch / fold oversize and trim the folded booklet back (3 sides) to your final size. It helps to stack your folded books overnight with a nice hefty weight on the spine to get them to lay flat before trimming (We put them in a padding clamp for an hour or two, which works fine)

oh yeh and i was also thinking. I can get 2 x a5 booklets out of 1 sra3 sheets. so i would need to print both cover and text pages 2 up and imposed the same, so that when i trim the sheets in half they are good to go for scoring, stapling, folding trimming with no other alignment needed. Im sure im doing my head in more than i need to, but just wanna get it right without having to toss out a heap of mistakes.

 

[Rikkie]

Yes, indeed - the covers and the booklet need to be positioned in register - very important. If you do have a mis-register off the press, you can correct this by trimming the covers and/or text before stitching / folding.

Because there is inevitably some 'bow' on the spine, one can't cut too many at a time. This is why I like to clamp the spines down first, to get the books laying as flat as possible. You can then use a sheet of Manila board on top of your pack of say 5 booklets, which will help keep the spines of the books up against the backguage, giving you a much more consistent measurement on the short edge.

 

[wentworth]

Yes, indeed - the covers and the booklet need to be positioned in register - very important. If you do have a mis-register off the press, you can correct this by trimming the covers and/or text before stitching / folding.

Because there is inevitably some 'bow' on the spine, one can't cut too many at a time. This is why I like to clamp the spines down first, to get the books laying as flat as possible. You can then use a sheet of Manila board on top of your pack of say 5 booklets, which will help keep the spines of the books up against the backguage, giving you a much more consistent measurement on the short edge.

excuse my ignorance. but how would i know if there is a slight misregister? is there a way to check this, or just by eye?

 

[Rikkie]

oh yeh and i was also thinking. I can get 2 x a5 booklets out of 1 sra3 sheets. so i would need to print both cover and text pages 2 up and imposed the same, so that when i trim the sheets in half they are good to go for scoring, stapling, folding trimming with no other alignment needed. Im sure im doing my head in more than i need to, but just wanna get it right without having to toss out a heap of mistakes.

You can print 2-up on SRA3, but remember that all the text and covers HAVE to be in register. One way to do this, is to do your imposition with double cuts of say 10mm all round. Your production steps are then:

Print SRA3
Cut to A4 with crop marks (Centre cut between crop marks [5mm margin all round]);
Check that cover and each spread register one to the other. If not, rectify on guillotine;
Score;
Collate;
Stitch;
Fold;
Trim to final size

 

[Rikkie]

excuse my ignorance. but how would i know if there is a slight misregister? is there a way to check this, or just by eye?

You can check with a ruler, or make up 1 booklet and trim it to the marks. You'll soon see any incostistency and identify the offending spread.

 

[wentworth]

You can check with a ruler, or make up 1 booklet and trim it to the marks. You'll soon see any incostistency and identify the offending spread.

thats great! thanks alot for helping me nut it out

 

[MrKarter77]

thats great! thanks alot for helping me nut it out

This seems to be a hard way of doing things rikkie, if everything was trimmed to a4 with a score, we are talking a really short run here of 100 for this i think it would be easier to trim to A4 first score the a4 books, then stitch flat along the scores, fold and trim creep.

i have the luxury of having a digital press/duplo dbm120/t with a dsf 2000 so its alot easier, before this machine i was doing books by hand for short run with a stitcher. and books were trimmed to a4 before, then creep removed..

 

[wentworth]

This seems to be a hard way of doing things rikkie, if everything was trimmed to a4 with a score, we are talking a really short run here of 100 for this i think it would be easier to trim to A4 first score the a4 books, then stitch flat along the scores, fold and trim creep.

i have the luxury of having a digital press/duplo dbm120/t with a dsf 2000 so its alot easier, before this machine i was doing books by hand for short run with a stitcher. and books were trimmed to a4 before, then creep removed..

will it be easy enough to trim creep without trimming the cover though? and if so can i do this in stacks of 5 or so?

 

[MrKarter77]

will it be easy enough to trim creep without trimming the cover though? and if so can i do this in stacks of 5 or so?

i would normally do 2-3, Spending a little extra time cutting and getting them perfect. How many internals on what sort of stock would you be looking at.

If the books are flatter then it would be quite possible to trim more

 

[wentworth]

i would normally do 2-3, Spending a little extra time cutting and getting them perfect. How many internals on what sort of stock would you be looking at.

If the books are flatter then it would be quite possible to trim more

300gsm/140lb cover with standard copy paper internals (80gsm?)
Approx 6-8 a4pages doubled over to a5.
I just cant imagine it being too easy to trim just creep

 

[Rikkie]

Hi MrKarter

You are right in saying that it's a long way around. However, if final dimensions are critical, or the cover design calls for a precise cut relative to the design, it is the safer route.