Inconsistent CMYK workflow

dbowe

Member
Hi all,
I have a question I'm hoping you won't mind helping me with. I am a graphic designer and I designed a catalog for my company. it has a rich black square that bleeds off the top left corners and top right corners. I noticed that the other cmyk color on these pages are inconsistent from page to page. For instance the brown on one page is more of a red brown and on the following page it's more of a green brown.

Here is my question.
The printer told me that the colors are inconsistent from page to page because of the 4 color black on the top left and top right corners. I have never heard of this before? Is this true? If so could you please help me understand?

Thanks!!
 
If I understand this correctly, what happened is their press is not laying down consistent color per signature. The rich black in the corner might be the cause of creating this imbalance. I have seen this happened even on a two color job, and your eyes can pickup the subtle difference easily.

If that's how they deliver your finished product, sounds like they are not making much effort in checking the quality of their work though and correcting it.
 
process browns are tough a small shift in grey balance can swing the whole thing. the cyan, yellow, or magenta can make a big difference in hue. unless the overall size of the rich black is changing or there is light coverage everywhere else I would not think the fact that it is rich black would make a difference. how big is the run length. on small runs this would be an issue. if the run is 20,000 they should be able to nail it. or if they are running on a 1 or 2 color press this would be tough too.
 
Last edited:
rbailleu,
They are running on a 4 color press, the black box in the corners is .5"w x .75"h and the run is small, about 2000. The CMYK brown is throughout the page, not directly underneath the black box.
 
Then they're pulling your leg. If they can't safely print a brown, and are blaming a 2-colour black, they're dodgy. Look for a new printer.
 
can I ask what kind of 4 color press. we have a local implant that has a one color press that they run 4 color on. they think they have a 4 color press. it takes 2 weeks to print 5000 8 page books. the 2000 run should be a big enough run length to get the color right. are the pages similar otherwise. you should make the rich black 100 20 20 20 and see if it gets better. that seems like a small patch of black. or go to a 5 color press and print the brown as a spot.
 
Hi all,
I noticed that the other cmyk color on these pages are inconsistent from page to page. For instance the brown on one page is more of a red brown and on the following page it's more of a green brown.
!

Look at an uncut sheet and check colour bars,, simply a lack of keeping a consistant colour density throughout the entire job, poor effort from the pressman basically.. a garentee you get him to print it without the black patches in each corner and he will still most likely have inconsistant colour..

although in saying that,, their only needs to be a very small shif in yellow/magenta density and the brown will look totaly different, also registration will alter the colour..
 
Yes, brown is almost as fickle as grey in that regard.

But still, there's enough good presses and competent pressmen around that dbowe shouldn't have to settle for this rubbish from his current printer.
 
Thank you everyone so much! I really appreciate all your feedback. I was willing to take the responsibility if it was mine to take but something just didn't feel right about his explanation. Oh by the way, I know I keep changing the info. I thought it was a 4 color press they used but I found out it was an 8 color press. I don't know if it makes a difference. Thanks for the validation.
 
We typically run 100%k 30% to 40% cyan for any large flat black areas. This shouldnt affect the colour shift through the rest of the job. If there are a lot of images on the sheets the press operator may be trying to achieve good skin tones for example at the cost of consitency in the 4 colour brown thoughuot the job. I agree that i would ask to see a 'make ready' sign off sheet that the printer should have kept.
 
if its an 8 colour its probably perfecting and there can be inconsistency from the back to the front of the sheet, when it folded up you get different resuts side by side on a readers spread.
 
if they have an 8 color they should be able to get a consistant color. even a used 8 color is in the $1,000,000.00 range unless it needed an overhaul. they should have some checks on color. we aren't perfect, but I would expect someone with an 8 color to be better than us. either way it isn't the little black bars in the corners. it most likely is the pressman not checking. but it could be color shift do to misregistration. either way communicate with them that it is very important that the brown be consistant. do press checks. it should only take them a couple hours to run your whole job. if press checks are not possible, get a new printer. how did the proofs look? can they match a proof?
 
Ha ha ha,
just change your printer. It's definitely not your design. It's just a printer problem.
 
I can't tell you all how much I appreciate all your feedback. It was done on an 8 color press. In our meeting to discuss this he asked me if I have ever done a catalog type job like this before, I said no, and then he gave me a very condescending (poor ignorant little you) smile and basically said it was my fault. If it's my fault I accept responsibility but what he was telling me just didn't ring true. Thank you all!!
 
Wether you are right or wrong on this ,which Im more inclined to agree with you than the printer. Your printer doesnt sound like they are willing to work with you very much on solving the issue. You would be better off finding a new printer.
and as speaking as a pressman "oh lord help me make this brown a PMS..."
 

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