Kodak Quantum III 400_Problem

K

kala

Guest
We are facing some following problems in the CTP machine.

Machine Name: Kodak Quantum III 400 - manual plate loading

Problem 1: Unexposed plate receiving from trend setter. It is taking plate from manual loading and after normal exposing time it is releasing the unexposed plate. It is some time happening 1 in between and some time it is happening continuously. That is continuously several times. If we tried 5 times. All the 5 times happening unexposed plates.

6 weeks ago it started in between 1 unexposed plate. But it is gradually increased and last week we received lot of unexposed plates and in complete plates. If we switch off the machine and start after 4 hours it exposed some times and some times it was not exposed.



Problem 2: In complete Plate Exposer. Some times 1 inch to 2 inch of plate exposed and it is releasing the plate without complete exposé.

ERROR SIGNAL RECEIVED: LV 24 V NOT IN RANGE.

We changed the power supply cable and power supply unit as per engineer recommendation. After this it is improved, we are exposing plates. But we are getting 10% incomplete plates every day. That is we are getting 8 incomplete exposed plates out of 80 total exposed plates. And we are getting 5 unexposed plates out of 80 total plates.

Before change this power supply unit it was completely stopped exposing the plates. It we tried several times all the times we received unexposed plates.

regards
kala
 

LoWang

Well-known member
We are facing some following problems in the CTP machine.

Machine Name: Kodak Quantum III 400 - manual plate loading

Problem 1: Unexposed plate receiving from trend setter. It is taking plate from manual loading and after normal exposing time it is releasing the unexposed plate. It is some time happening 1 in between and some time it is happening continuously. That is continuously several times. If we tried 5 times. All the 5 times happening unexposed plates.

6 weeks ago it started in between 1 unexposed plate. But it is gradually increased and last week we received lot of unexposed plates and in complete plates. If we switch off the machine and start after 4 hours it exposed some times and some times it was not exposed.



Problem 2: In complete Plate Exposer. Some times 1 inch to 2 inch of plate exposed and it is releasing the plate without complete exposé.

ERROR SIGNAL RECEIVED: LV 24 V NOT IN RANGE.

We changed the power supply cable and power supply unit as per engineer recommendation. After this it is improved, we are exposing plates. But we are getting 10% incomplete plates every day. That is we are getting 8 incomplete exposed plates out of 80 total exposed plates. And we are getting 5 unexposed plates out of 80 total plates.

Before change this power supply unit it was completely stopped exposing the plates. It we tried several times all the times we received unexposed plates.

regards
kala

Hi Kala,

I guess it's head's cable problem (in worst case the head itself). If your PrintConsole is version 4.x then check in history tab if there are head related messages, also check in configuration tab what type your head is (TH1.7 or 2.x).
Depend on head type there are 3 cables (th1.7) or just one (th 2.x). Any way to replace the cable (s) you'll need somebody to help (FE).

Check the PC version and TH version and messages and post it on forum.

LoWang
 

nemo

Well-known member
There is no 24v power supply for the laser (using two 48v power supplies). LV stands for light valve
In the first case - do you get any error or you see the progress bar going all the way and the job reported as successful?
Replace all laser cables. Check carefully the log files. If there are no other symptoms and the problem stays you may need a new laser.

LoWang,
Th2.x has 3 cables (power, control and data) and they can be replaced without a FE. Messages are not to be checked in Print Console but in Service Shell device logs. From description and error posted kala has a GMCE Trendsetter with a Th1.7.
 
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Hi Kala,

There are many possible causes:

1.- You need to replace the cable data ( it is like a fiber optic cable ) too.

2.- did you replace communication cable ( I guess it is SCSI ) between workstation and Trendsetter?, if you not please replace it.

3.- I suppose that you check the ¨Focus Cal Reflect ¨command, you have to listen 9 to 10 clicks that came from shutter, try to run several times the ¨focus cal reflect¨ command and pay attention if the shutter is working ( 9 or 10 click sound). Try to disable the shutter:

>>set sys tstk 0

In this case the head will not do beam balancing at all and you MAY be able to image.


4.-Some months ago I had a similar problem, it is not the same, just similar, and so I had to install the ghost backup in Wstation that I made when I finished the initial installation

5.- Can you sent me the Skoke file graph? Please.

Good Luck,

YR
 

LoWang

Well-known member
"LoWang,
Th2.x has 3 cables (power, control and data) and they can be replaced without a FE. Messages are not to be checked in Print Console but in Service Shell device logs. From description and error posted kala has a GMCE Trendsetter with a Th1.7."

Hi Nemo, you're right, I know it, but broken power cable would give different error message - the head would not boot at all, with coax cable there would be checksum errors so I guess the com (smaller military plug) cable is the problem (if , of course it is the TH 2.x head).
Also errors are posted on PC as well.

Regards
 

nemo

Well-known member
"LoWang,

Hi Nemo, you're right, I know it, but broken power cable would give different error message - the head would not boot at all, with coax cable there would be checksum errors so I guess the com (smaller military plug) cable is the problem (if , of course it is the TH 2.x head).
Also errors are posted on PC as well.

Regards
LoWang,
Again, this is a GMCE machine with Th1.7.
The LV error message is not caused by the hotlink cable. Only the "write laser" power going down due to bad PS or cable may cause it (if he's lucky) - the 24v in the message is generated internally in the head.. The head will not boot at all in case of a "head logic" power supply or cable problem.

yvroman,
This is a "III" machine so there is no scsi involved. A bad shutter (external on a Th1.7) will cause other errors - edge detection failures, beam balance errors etc. Setting tstk to 0 is only a temporary fix in case of a bad shutter as no beam balance will be done and image quality will degrade in a matter of days (and this is only possible if he is using one single plate type)

I do not think the 2 problems kala listed are related.
The Trendsetter will always give you an error if there is something wrong internally causing the job to fail unless the hotlink cable is broken - even in that case he may find CRC errors in the log files. I think the first issue may be workflow related caused by corrupted files if there is no message whatsoever and Print Console shows the job as completed successfully.
The second problem with the LV 24v error is more serious. If the power supply and head cables do not fix it, it could mean that a new laser is needed.
Kala,
You should post or PM me the Service Shell device logs and Print Console logs mentioning exactly the time you experienced each problem at.
 
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Raymond Ramirez

Well-known member
LoWang,
Again, this is a GMCE machine with Th1.7.
The LV error message is not caused by the hotlink cable. Only the "write laser" power going down due to bad PS or cable may cause it (if he's lucky) - the 24v in the message is generated internally in the head.. The head will not boot at all in case of a "head logic" power supply or cable problem.

yvroman,
This is a "III" machine so there is no scsi involved. A bad shutter (external on a Th1.7) will cause other errors - edge detection failures, beam balance errors etc. Setting tstk to 0 is only a temporary fix in case of a bad shutter as no beam balance will be done and image quality will degrade in a matter of days (and this is only possible if he is using one single plate type)

I do not think the 2 problems kala listed are related.
The Trendsetter will always give you an error if there is something wrong internally causing the job to fail unless the hotlink cable is broken - even in that case he may find CRC errors in the log files. I think the first issue may be workflow related caused by corrupted files if there is no message whatsoever and Print Console shows the job as completed successfully.
The second problem with the LV 24v error is more serious. If the power supply and head cables do not fix it, it could mean that a new laser is needed.
Kala,
You should post or PM me the Service Shell device logs and Print Console logs mentioning exactly the time you experienced each problem at.



I am no expert but look and see if the print consol's hard drive is fragmented. I had an issue with this at a local newspaper.
 
Hi Nemo,

You are right but the shutter gets stuck sometimes and sometimes does not open or when CTP is exposing, the shutter closes before finishing, for that I told to Kala that try to do focus cal reflect and try to listen if the shutter open and close 9 or 10 times.

But like you , I think too that the problem could be the workstation software and I recommend you install everything since cero to get the worrstation as new, I had a similar error a year ago.

As Kala said, they changed the power supply cable and power supply unit as per engineer recommendation.

But if everything is ok Ok the problem could be the head.

Thanks,

YR
 

PeterW

Well-known member
laser head

laser head

We can repair or replace the laser head if the problem is with it.
I'll be glad to answer any questions. If you are interested, please call me.

Marta
773-545-7000
 

Alex_AG

Member
We have problem like this.

Some of plates exit from Trendsetter not exposed. These plates didn't have any images they are fully not exposed. Such plates appear between normally exposed plates, in one job. Exposing blank plate take the same time that normal.

We have the error in Print Console: "LV 24V not in range (unipolar)", appears when exposing starts in this case exposing didn't start.

We have this error in ServisShell log "<GMCE> Thermal Head Safety Loop Fault!", in this case exposing starts and we had blank plate.

CTP Trendsetter 400 III Quantum, Prinergy Connect 4.1, GMCE, TH 1.7.
The cable and power supply units had changed.
 

bitchslap

New member
I am facing the same problem.
I own a Kodak Trendsetter 800 III Quantum with 50W laser. The Print Consol is version 4.18.
I already had new data and power cabel installed. No effect.
There is a board on the bottom of the logic compartment of the machine (where on-of switch is located). The board is mounted horizonral, and it has like 8 greenish relays. On the board there is a doid described as 'service'. The diod blinks red, whereas all other diods are green. Do you think changing this board would help solve this issue?
I'll be happy to hear any advice.
 
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Mohammed yemen

New member
Hi
I have problem in my ctp trendsetter Q400
(this error) : Fatal fault (02318) laser diode :
The laser power could not be calculated during calibratio
please help me
 

PeterW

Well-known member
Dear Mohammed,
We replace and repair Kodak laser heads. We will perform the remote diagnostics on your Trendsetter 400 Quantum to confirm the problem with the laser head and how to fix it. Please send me a PM or simply email to pwarzecha@viprofix.com and I will put you in touch with one of our engineers.

Peter Warzecha, Sales Manager
Viprofix Prepress Solutions
3650 N. Cicero Ave. Chicago IL 60641
Phone: +1-773-545-7700 ext. 217
Cell / Whatsapp: +1-773-600-7391
Email: pwarzecha@viprofix.com
Website: www.viprofix.com
 

zamir

Member
Dear Lotem Quantum users,

As you can see in the attached photo,I have problem of registration in the CMYK plates
due to the EDGE DETECTION SYSTEM which is adopted by KODAK, meaning the plates are aligned by reading the emultion
on the plate's edge.
It happens when I'm using plates from China or Taiwan which are not confirmed by Kodak...

Is there any CALIBRATION possibilities to adjust the sensitivity of the Edge Detection Sensor?

Your help will be appreciated,

Zamir Bar-Lev

email: zamir@printiv.net
Printiv Press
Jerusalem, ISRAEL
 

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Dear Zamir,

Lotem Quantum edge detection mechanism use its mainly thermal laser head. Focusing laser sends beam into the drum. If the beam points on the drum area not covered by the plate, it falls into the edge detection notch and is deflected aside. When beam points the plate area, it is reflected back to the thermal head, into the focus sensor. The edge detection problems may result from:

- bad clamps, slantly mounting plate .

- dirty edge detection groove

- internal problems of the thermal laser head focus assembly.

- bad plate programming


Your post implies, the problem occurs only for Chinese plates. If this is the case, the most likely plates are not programmed properly. You rather print using some memory slot populated by programming for other plate. Every plate must be programmed in accordance to its specific technical media note to be properly recognized and exposed.
 

nemo

Well-known member
Dear Lotem Quantum users,

As you can see in the attached photo,I have problem of registration in the CMYK plates
due to the EDGE DETECTION SYSTEM which is adopted by KODAK, meaning the plates are aligned by reading the emultion
on the plate's edge.
It happens when I'm using plates from China or Taiwan which are not confirmed by Kodak...

Is there any CALIBRATION possibilities to adjust the sensitivity of the Edge Detection Sensor?

Your help will be appreciated,

Zamir Bar-Lev

email: zamir@printiv.net
Printiv Press
Jerusalem, ISRAEL

Assuming punches are registered, you will need an engineer to look at your machine.
Each plate type needs specific parameters adjusted in the laser - in your case the reflectivity may need adjustment.
It is not a sensor - it is a laser beam supposed to detect the plate and track the plate surface ahead during imaging to maintain optimum focus and compensate for small bumps.
Plate quality and consistency is a factor as well - waves of emulsion or burrs on edges can cause the edge to jump even if laser is setup correctly.
Lastly, small adjustments can be done on press and compensate minor variations.
 

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