new X800/1000 WILL be at Ipex

[lfelton]

news from Xerox:-

Xerox to bring 800/1000 machine to Europe at Ipex | printweek.com

No word on orders / ship dates, so I think we have to assume it's a little while away from actual customer installs. Also no word on whether this is a working machine, or just a "show & tell" type preview.

 

[Josh]

More info here: Xerox Color 800/1000 Presses Produce HD Image Quality / Xerox Newsroom

and Xerox Color 1000 Press

Taking orders now apparently!

 

[Josh]

Can't quite get my head round the Recommended Monthly Volumes though...

Take the 800 Press (80ppm) this is rated to 180,000, well the 5000AP is rated to 150,000 and the 8000AP is rated upto 400,000... so comparing the 8000AP to the Color 800, they're both the same speed, the 800 will be more money but it's rated to do 220,000 clicks less per month?!? How does that work?

...and if anyone comes back with "value added applications mean you don't have to run any work, just sell your sheets for £10 each"... well, don't get me started.

 

[lfelton]

No, I just don't get the duty cycle / pricing either. If you crunch the numbers that's roughly a 42% gross margin at 100% duty cycle, factoring only lease+maint+clicks. A very efficient way to go bust IMO. I think the duty cycle needs to be at least double that to realistically start making a profit.

 

[Craig]

Josh,
It's all about the "Value Added Applications" one job makes the payment, the rest is all profit!

 

[Josh]

Finally I have a way of producing all those enquiries I get each day for fully personalised mailers with spot gloss, oh all of which need delivery tomorrow. And luckily as a "Marketing Communications Provider" my clients don't have those silly restrictive budgets which plague the "regular" printer.

...and of course, all those highly complex mailers which no-one quite understands anyway are ordered via web-to-print, so I don't even have to discuss the job with them anyway.

 

[Craig]

With JDF and Hot Folders you don't even need to be there to run the job.

It's funny... a bit off topic I apologize, but none of my customers even care about VDP, they see no benefit for the added cost.

 

[X33]

No word on orders / ship dates, so I think we have to assume it's a little while away from actual customer installs. Also no word on whether this is a working machine, or just a "show & tell" type preview.

it is being showcased in the U.S. today at On Demand in PA. It's a "working" machine, ready for the field.

Receiving orders today in the U.S. and Western Europe. Rest of the World will be in May.

Xerox Color 800/1000 Presses Produce HD Image Quality / Xerox Newsroom

Don't confuse Average Monthly Print Volume vs Duty Cycle.

Using the same metric for all models, Duty Cycles per month:

Xerox DocuColor 5000AP: 500,000
Xerox DocuColor 7002: 1 million
Xerox DocuColor 8002: 1.2 million
Xerox 800: 1.5 million
Xerox 1000: 1.75 million
Xerox iGen4 110: 3.75 million
Xerox iGen4 220: 7.5 million

 

[Josh]

Using the same metric for all models, Duty Cycles per month:

Xerox DocuColor 5000AP: 500,000
Xerox DocuColor 7002: 1 million
Xerox DocuColor 8002: 1.2 million
Xerox 800: 1.5 million
Xerox 1000: 1.75 million
Xerox iGen4 110: 3.75 million
Xerox iGen4 220: 7.5 million

And AMPV:

Xerox DocuColor 5000AP: 150,000
Xerox DocuColor 7002: 300,000
Xerox DocuColor 8002: 400,000
Xerox 800: 180,000
Xerox 1000: 250,000
Xerox iGen4 110: 200,000+
Xerox iGen4 220: 300,000+

...so Xerox are recommending you should do less volume on the 800/1000 compared to the 7/8002??

 

[X33]

And AMPV:

Xerox DocuColor 5000AP: 150,000
Xerox DocuColor 7002: 300,000
Xerox DocuColor 8002: 400,000
Xerox 800: 180,000
Xerox 1000: 250,000
Xerox iGen4 110: 200,000+
Xerox iGen4 220: 300,000+

...so Xerox are recommending you should do less volume on the 800/1000 compared to the 7/8002??

I see what you are saying, I think you are taking the numbers published online.

AMPV is usually a range, therefore (from Xerox.com):

Xerox DocuColor 5000AP: 30,000 - 150,000
Xerox DocuColor 7002: 75,000 - 300,000
Xerox DocuColor 8002: 100,000 - 400,000
Xerox 800: 180,000*
Xerox 1000: 250,000*
Xerox iGen4 110: 200,000 - 3,750,000+
Xerox iGen4 220: 400,000 - 7,500,000+

*To me, it seems that the number published is in the middle of the range. It will probably be corrected soon. I'm just guessing.

 

[Josh]

Maybe if these were the bottom of the recommended range, then based on the ranges given for the 7/8002 the AMPVs would be something like:

800 - 180,000-720,000
1000 - 250,000 - 1,000,000

...Which seems a bit more promising.

(The bottom of the range being 25% of the top.)

If they are the middle of the range then they still seem a bit low since the 8002s middle would be 250,000. (and the 800 is 180,000)

 

[Josh]

...but anyway, best not to bogged down on specifics of how much the machine should actually be used!

What about the EA toner... Have Xerox actually got any yet?? (referring to the lack of supply on the 700)

 

[X33]

Maybe if these were the bottom of the recommended range

you may be right.

 

[X33]

What about the EA toner... Have Xerox actually got any yet?? (referring to the lack of supply on the 700)

no problems in the U.S. since the beginning of the year as far as I know.

 

[geoman]

No problem with supplies in Australia. Toner, drums, fusers are all in plentiful supply.

 

[billyinlasvegas]

According to our sales rep your AMPV is supposed to be your break even point. So if your AMPV goes up they'll try to sell you a bigger machine.

Anyway that's not important. The real test will be can you hit that max number on the duty cycle 1.5M or 1.75M without the machine falling apart.

I used to have a 5000AP and we once did 500k in a month and almost the entire machine was replaced by the end of the month.

Now I have an iGen4 and I've put well over 2.5M impressions in a month with zero calls for service.

Will it be as reliable as their flagship press?

 

[mariocanta]

Duty cycle

Duty cycle

Sorry for my English, I am Italian
When Xerox write : 180,000 pages per month for the 800 printer and 250,000 pages per month for the 1000 printer, this is the minimum number of pages that you have to print to justified the investment, otherwise you do not need this printer, if you print less pages it is difficult to maintain the printer cost.
The duty cycle is the most important number, and if you look at the number of duty cycle it is appropriate
I think this printer will cost, in euro, before discount 300.000,00 Euros
Mario