Pdf exported from InDesign can't be placed and re-exported/

almaink

Well-known member
I've been seeing this for a while now and wonder why. I have a file that was created in InDesign CS2. I export to PDF , place into a InDesign plate template from Rampage and export. I get "file failed to export". No other information. Same PDF placed into INDesign CS3 exports no problem. I've seen it the other way to. CS3 PDF won't export when placed into a CS2 document.

here it is if anyone thinks they can figure out whats going on here.
Thanks
http://b4.s3.p.quickshareit.com/files/709remitpdf05139.pdf
 

claude72

Well-known member
I've been seeing this for a while now and wonder why. I have a file that was created in InDesign CS2. I export to PDF , place into a InDesign plate template from Rampage and export. I get "file failed to export".
Basic rule with exported PDF: when you have a problem with an exported PDF, the first thing to try is to redo the PDF by distilling a PostScript file...

... altought many people (Adobe, Quark, printers, schools, designers*, etc.) claim that exported PDF are as good than distilled PDF, in the facts and in the daily job when having a problem with an exported PDF (from Xpress or from an Adobe software), this problem almost always disappears when distilling the PDF with Acrobat Distiller from a printed PostScript file...
(showing that exported PDF are not as reliable than distilled PDF!!!)


* often designers are not a good reference: they claim that they never have problem with their exported PDF, althought they never output a film or a plate from their PDF... it's easy and normal to avoid problem when one doesn't make the job... only (pre-press) people that image their PDF experience and know the problems...
 

Colorblind

Well-known member
While I agree that the ps to distill route will often solve a lot of problems (especially when using Quark), I think it has more to do with the kind of workflow you're using. I don't think there is a generic answer here other than "is your workflow up to date to handle these PDFs"
 
C

cjwworld

Guest
use optimiser to change PDF version to 1.3 and it should import
 

almaink

Well-known member
use optimiser to change PDF version to 1.3 and it should import
It should have imported as is and using Acrobat to optimize it to 1.3 doesn't work. The thing I don't get is, it was made in CS2 but can't be exported after being placed back into CS2. It will export if placed in CS3 or CS4 tho.
One problem with writing postscript or using version 1.3 PDF is Transparency is flattened. Not an issue with this file but it has been in the past with other files I've had the same issue with.
 

claude72

Well-known member
While I agree that the ps to distill route will often solve a lot of problems (especially when using Quark), I think it has more to do with the kind of workflow you're using.
Ok, but theorically, there should be no difference between a PDF 1.3 exported from InDesign 1.5 and a PDF 1.3 exported from InDesign CS4 or a PDF 1.3 distilled by Adobe Distiller 6...: a PDF 1.3 is a PDF 1.3 and has to match with the specifications of the 1.3 definition...

... and a RIP or a PDFworkflow "compatible PDF 1.3" should accept any PDF 1.3, no matter how they are created and no matter the release of the creation software...

... so, why in fact, it doesn't work and "it has more to do with the kind of workflow you're using"???



I don't think there is a generic answer here other than "is your workflow up to date to handle these PDFs"
OK, but:

• no matter the age of the RIP, a RIP "compatible PDF 1.3" is up-to-date to handle 1.3 PDF!!! so why should we buy a brand new 2009 RIP compatible PDF 1.7 and PrintEngine to be able to image a simple old 1.3 PDF???

• AcrobatPro 8 is able to handle 1.7 PDF... so, no problem with PDF 1.4...
... and AcrobatPro 8 is provided in the CS3 suite with InDesign CS3... so both softs are matching together, Acrobat 8 is "up-to-date" with InDesign CS3 and it should be no problem with PDF exported from InDesign CS3...
... then why did I experience many problems with simply opening in AcrobatPro 8 some PDF 1.4 exported from ID CS3 (or Xpress 7)???
(and each time problem disappear with a distilled PDF)

• and what about almaink's problem: InDesign CS2 is not able to handle a PDF that it has itself exported! would you say that InDesign CS2 is not the good workflow to handle its own PDF??? or that InDesign CS2 is not "up-to-date with itself"??? :D:D:D


"be up-to-date" and "upgrade your workflow and your softwares" are the only answers that the Adobe's Hot-Line is able to give to some problems that should not occur and caused by bugs... the only real answer is: "the softwares that Adobe sells have been written with the feet (in the dark), they contain plenty of bugs, and we pay for crap... and the PDF export is simply not reliable!!!"
 
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mattbeals

Well-known member
Alma, why are you optimizing the document in Acrobat to PDF 1.3? Why not just export the PDF's and then place them into your imposition template? Or even better why not just group the objects together and impose the native objects and then export to PDF 1.3? What is the need for the export and optimization?
 

almaink

Well-known member
No need Matt the PDF I made from Indesign CS2 was placed on a CS2 template for export along with two other PDF files as it was a gang run. I could not re-export that template to PDF. So I started pulling it a part to see where the issue was, and it turned out to be one of the PDF's that was made in Indesign CS2. I opened that PDF up in Acrobat and optimized it back to version 1.3 to see if that would let it export. It didn't. I ended up opening the template in Indesign CS3 and exported it from there. My question is why did I have to do this? A PDF exported from InDesign CS2 should be able to be placed back into CS2 and be exported to PDF.
 

claude72

Well-known member
My question is why did I have to do this? A PDF exported from InDesign CS2 should be able to be placed back into CS2 and be exported to PDF.
Yes, should be... but, again "Basic rule with exported PDF is: when you have a problem with an exported PDF, the first thing to try is to redo the PDF by distilling a PostScript file..."...

... so, just do this test: redo your PDF with PostScript file and Distiller, replace it in your template and see what happens when trying to export your template as a PDF from ID CS2...
... if it works with the distilled PDF, the problem is in your exported PDF!!!
 
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almaink

Well-known member
Claude 72 Yes I know writing a ps file works. But what do I do when this happens with a file that contains transparency? Flattening isn't always an option as my rip prefers un-flattened PDF files. Basically I just want to know why this happens. Also why does the bad PDF work in CS3 and CS4?
 

claude72

Well-known member
Claude 72 Yes I know writing a ps file works. But what do I do when this happens with a file that contains transparency? Flattening isn't always an option as my rip prefers un-flattened PDF files.
Even if your RIP prefers un-flattened PDF, it normally should be able to handle good flattened PDF!!!

Many problems with transparency comes from bad flattening by unaware designers and other incompetent PDF makers... and that's often why printers now ask for 1.4 or 1.5 exported PDF, to keep un-flattened transparencies and to flatten themself as they need...

... but you are not an incompetent PDF maker: you seem to work in a print-shop, and to have a good understanding of ripping and transparencies flattening, so you sure are able to flatten your transparencies perfectly, with all the good parameters, while outputting the PS file, and you sure are able to control the flattening to be sure that your RIP will accept it...
so, no problem!!!



Basically I just want to know why this happens. Also why does the bad PDF work in CS3 and CS4?
Short answer is: bugs...
 

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