Prepress Workflow Shopping

[markb]

We are a digital and offset printing company and have EFI Pace MIS, two HP Indigo 3000 series presses (Dedicated HP RIP Box), iGen4 (Freeflow), Oce VarioPrint (digital B/W), two Xerox Nuvera 120s (digital B/W), Rampage (Win7Pro 64bit), 28" Komori 5-color offset, PressTek 2340 RIP, 2 small format spot-color offset, HP Scitex 98", Kongsburg CAD cutting table and 7 prepress staff running 2 shifts.

We are looking over Esko prepress automation engine software with dedicated RIP, color processing- full package. We have Rampage, but only use for 28" 5-color offset workflow and sometimes spot-color offset.

The goal is to not increase prepress staff as we grow. Given our diverse printing business and we will work on any printing order from $10 to $100,000, does anyone have any advise on Esko vs Rampage vs Printergy or any other workflow automation tools? Seems like Printergy and Ramage are popular choices, but I'm not sure I see many people chatting about Esko in digital printing companies, seems like packaging and labels might be their main market. Thanks!

 

[Joe Duffy]

I used Esko when we had UV web offset, flexo and Digital printing solutions and Epson Ink Jet with Best RIP and found it to be a robust solution. They had the best pdf editing solution around and other than a weak imposition solution (this was 5 years ago) it was perfect. Be sure you are sitting down when you talk about price and go overboard on the hardware to run the sultion. We upgraded the storarge and RIP box box within 18 months of implementing.
I love Rampage and if I was going to switch off, it would be to ESKO. Be sure to allow for a long learning curve and to have them include alot of hands on training for your operators.

 

[Sev]

We went from Harlequin RIPs to Esko Artworks Nexus workflow, and love it. Nexus is very powerful. After the initial training, I found Nexus easy to understand and operate, and easy to customize workflows. We also had an older Kodak RIP for our Epson 7600, but last year upgraded to the Kodak Color Proofing RIP for an Epson 7890 with Xrite SpectroProofer. We also added Prinergy Evo to run our Kodak Trendsetter device. We basically redid the prepress area, with the new platesetter, new proofer, all new macs, added a Xerox 700 and Xerox 4110. Even though those are older digital machines, they do the job for us, and has helped us to increase business.

-Sev

 

[markb]

Thanks all. We are looking at Esko AE, FlexRIP and a collection of other modules for layout, viewing and web proofing. Two questions: for AE11, we need to purchase a third-party imposition solution, or at least that is the recommendation from Esko. There are been recommendations of Preps and Dynagram. We are not using any imposition solution that will work with Esko or our Rampage system currently and this is a top item for us regardless of the Esko software. Does anyone have any recommendations or feedback on this? I am leaning towards Preps since this can work with our Rampage system and most prepress hires in our region seem to have Preps experience.

Also, we only use our Rampage system currently for large plate imagesetting with our Fuji Dart and Epson 9800 proofer, but are looking at driving small plate Presstek imagesetting from Ramage with a 1-bit passthrough to the Presstek RIP. Our digital printing jobs are prepped in prepress and sent directly to Press RIP, not Rampage. We are digital printing heavy company, but offset is good portion of our business.

Can the Esko FlexRip solution replace our Ramage system to drive our Fuji Dart, Presstek Imagesetter and Epson 9800 proofer? I am hoping to avoid duplicate systems and the key it seems to the Esko workflow solutions we are looking at is to centralize Ripping. Does not make sense to use Rampage and Esko (have two system). Thank you for any feedback.

 

[Joe Duffy]

I would keep Rampage around if you have alot of repeat jobs that are already ripped, otherwise you are wasting money by having both solutions side by side - the department will continue to use what they are familar with.

Based on your last post, just what is the reason to go to Esko workflow? Are you trying to keep from upgrading to the larest version of rampage? Are you just trying to add visual proof options? If you go AE11, you need to be sure they include enough licences of ArtPro and DotSpy for you to work and edit pdf and post rip files with. I would look carefully at the proofs from Esko on the Epson, being driven direct and be sure they are what you expect... that is why I had a BestColor Rip in front of my Epson, proofing on differnet stocks was not good out of Esko.

Esko or Rampage will drive everything in your shop if you put the correct hardware/package solution together.

If it was me, and I decided to go Esko then I would keep Rampage around only until everything is blessed and signed offf on then pull the plug. But I stilll wonder why not just fulfill everything with Rampage and stay in familiar ground.

 

[markb]

Thank you Joe. The feedback about multiple systems and why not just fulfill everything with Rampage since we are familiar are good points and are the main decision factors. We started looking at Esko because we recently deployed their i-Cut software and Kongsberg CAD cutting board/digital finishing system for our sign/display business. The preflight/fix, PDF editing and file normalization features are what has lead us to looking over AE and their FlexRIP solutions. Rampage I think can meet a lot of the efficiency requirements for us- imposition, central rip for offset and digital static jobs, but we are thinking the preflight/fix workflow AE has is better than Rampage. I agree about "pulling the plug" on Rampage if we can drive everything from Esko after 12-18 months.

 

[naplajoie2000]

We are an Esko AE 10 shop and have great success with it. The flexibility it allows is tremendous, and the ability to edit the ripped files is very nice. You can do varnishes and scores and dielines in one file, along with screening at the object level if necessary. We will create plate curves that affect duotones, cmyk, and halftones differently. We are able to mix stochastic (monet) dot with conventional screening when press issues like piling occur. And as for imposition software, FastImpose is as easy as it gets. Having worked in both the Rampage and Esko environments, Esko wins hands down, and with the ability to create workflows in Esko AE Pilot, the automation that Rampage had as an advantage has been greatly reduced.