Production printer advice please.

[Splatt]

Hello Everybody,
My situation is kind of long winded so I'll try and keep it short and to the point.

I'm entering into the (paper) printing game, I'm already into design, large format, banners and signs but I would like to take control of the flyers and cards etc side of the business as I am increasingly doing more and more but farming it out to a printer a few towns away.

I am located in Spain and the market here is very lively on a local level, the big firms haven't yet monopolised the market.

I have been shopping around for a KM Bizhub c6501/6500 but have run into a few barriers. The local KM dealership wants top € for a 6501, I've sourced one out of the country at less than half the price but KM won't offer me a service contract. Instead they are insisting that I buy a c550.

Would this machine be suitable? Considering the difference in brand new costs for both machines surely the 550 is inferior in a number of ways, even though on paper the specs are roughly equivalent?

I will be producing short runs of flyers, business cards etc, I have a good deal on filling plates with a litho printer so it really will be just the 'on demand' stuff.

I need the quality to be indistinguishable from a 6500 as that is the machine I am currently selling work from.

Thanks in advance for any help, all advice gratefully received!

Steve.

 

[tgrec441]

I have had both a C550 and a C6500. There is no comparison; you will not be able to pass off the work done on the C550.
The 6500 is vastly superior to the 550. I would advise against purchasing the 550.
Why are they insisting you get a 550?

 

[Splatt]

They want €20K for a 6501 with a 200k clicks, I have sourced a 6500 at €8.9K with half a million colour clicks. They say they will only service machines bought from them, no negotiation. If I want a service contract and don't want to spend the 20k then I can buy a second hand c550 for 8k, they say it will be the same quality. I have tried to bargain with them but they are absolutely holding fast, it's their way or no way.

So now I think I need to find an independent who can offer me a service contract.
I have a feeling that it will be difficult to find someone reliable over here though.

Thanks for your input, I had a feeling that was the case.

Steve.

 

[arossetti]

Have you shopped Xerox for a x700 series?

Edit: And if not tell KM that you are and probably going to go with them. Give them some competition.

 

[OkiTech]

wow! 20k euro for 6501?! We had offers of 14-15 USD on 6501 with baby counts - near 100K. It is a good strategy to push you to buy from them for a rip-off price and they deserve that you take your money to the competition. There must be a choice of a dealers, not just one.

 

[Splatt]

Thanks for the info.
Unfortunately over here, threats of going to the competition are met with a shrug of indifference. It's like being on a different planet.
I'm pretty sure I will end up buying from a different country and shipping in.
I just to need to find a reliable maintenance contract, a good freelance techie or go on a training course and learn how to maintain and repair the damn thing myself.

Steve.

 

[Josh]

Thanks for the info.
Unfortunately over here, threats of going to the competition are met with a shrug of indifference. It's like being on a different planet.
I'm pretty sure I will end up buying from a different country and shipping in.
I just to need to find a reliable maintenance contract, a good freelance techie or go on a training course and learn how to maintain and repair the damn thing myself.

Steve.

Just do the maintenance yourself!

Not sure what KM is like but plenty of support for Xerox consumables/service... especially in mainland Europe.

Does it have to be a KM machine?

 

[Splatt]

Hi Josh,
Is that a realistic option then? I'm fairly technically minded so I don't fear stripping things down. Hmmm.

The main reason I am after one of the KM machines is that the printer I am buying my work off at the moment uses one, and I am very impressed with the quality. Apart from some gradients looking a little 'dirty' sometimes, I would be hard pressed to tell the difference between the KM and a litho print.

I will ultimately be competing (in a friendly way) with the print company I am currently using, so I have to be selling equal or better print quality. If I sell worse then I'm dead in the water before I start.

I may start looking for a maintenance course, if they exist.

Cheers,

Steve.

 

[Tpyo]

IMO the Konika isn't set up as well as the Xerox models for end-user maintenance. I just had my KM6500 serviced this morning and the service tech had his laptop jacked into it along with many, many parts laid out before him. Rebuilding the components is part of the design. Xerox is so much more modular and set up for those locales that aren't so good for service.

 

[Josh]

I think it would be worth looking at a Xerox 700 (think this is the first time I've ever recommended one, but they do have their place!)

They don't use fuser oil (like the KM machines) which will help to give that litho-like finish.

If you need contacts for parts just send me a pm.

You may also need a PWS laptop for the servicing.

 

[KM1791254]

I think it would be worth looking at a Xerox 700 (think this is the first time I've ever recommended one, but they do have their place!)

They don't use fuser oil (like the KM machines) which will help to give that litho-like finish.

If you need contacts for parts just send me a pm.

You may also need a PWS laptop for the servicing.

KM machines don't use fuser oil, neither is a laptop required to work on them.
A switched on operator with a little guidance will have no problem replacing consumable parts themselves.

 

[Splatt]

Thanks for all the info so far!

It looks like I've found a supplier who appears to be very cheap. In fact I could buy a spare machine and still have change for a decent van and a slap up meal at Mrs Miggins pie shop.
However as money is involved I will next week be taking a 4000km trip to make sure that it is a reputable company and I may even return with a KM machine.
All the machines on offer seem to come with a variety of in-line modules, strangely this doesn't seem to affect the price greatly. Are some more useful than others? Are there any that create more problems than they solve? Or should I just nod wisely, briefly rub my chin and then buy the longest machine available?

A local company has agreed to inspect my purchase and will then decide on my service contract. I know this is all a gamble but sometimes you just have to jump in.

So I'm now looking at acquiring an Ideal 4850/5221 EP guillotine, I'm thinking that a 4850 would be big enough, and possibly a Horizon PF330 folder. I'll also get a few hand finishing tools, creaser, saddle stitcher and hand trimmer.
Then I think I'm good to go.

I may be a masochist but I always enjoy these early steps onto a new learning curve!

Cheers,
Steve.