Staccato 10 micro - Magnus 8OO quantum

KamilT

Active member
Dear all,
we can run Staccato 25 micro with decent print quality and repeatability. Some buyers want Staccato 10 micro, but i am not sure that this is achievable with our equipment. I understand all this stuff about printing press, certified thermal plates etc, but for now, my primary concern is CtP device. Seems to me, that all Kodak marketing materials and technical papers presume (more or less) that 10 m Staccato will be imaged on 10.000 dpi unit. This is something i can understand, as this must be really technically challenging. We have Magnus 800 quantum, which have far smaller resolution (2540 dpi), but according to Kodak www, Magnus 800 quantum can image Staccato 10m. Has this claim some basis in reality? What gives them the confidence to say this? Has the quantum model any special features, that Magnus 800 doesnt?
Thank you very much for yout time,

All the best
KamilT
 
[snip]Seems to me, that all Kodak marketing materials and technical papers presume (more or less) that 10 m Staccato will be imaged on 10.000 dpi unit. This is something i can understand, as this must be really technically challenging. We have Magnus 800 quantum, which have far smaller resolution (2540 dpi), but according to Kodak www, Magnus 800 quantum can image Staccato 10m. Has this claim some basis in reality? What gives them the confidence to say this? Has the quantum model any special features, that Magnus 800 doesnt?

The terminology - DPI and resolution - is confusing you.

DPI does not refer to resolution (even though the term is used that way). It refers to addressability.
A 2540 dpi device uses an addressability grid of 2540 locations per inch. Put another way, the CtP device can position the laser at 2540 locations per inch.
That does not tell you how large the laser spot is.
This graphic shows plate media being exposed at 2,540 dpi by six different CtP devices:

Addressabilitygrid-1_zpsbe6ab9dc.jpg


Note that they are all 2,540 dpi - that is that they all can hit the target location (address) with their beam of energy - however the exposing spots of energy are all different sizes, in this example ranging from about 2 microns on the left to about 30 microns on the right.

A Creo/Kodak Quantum device uses SquareSpot imaging technology that has an optical resolution of 10,000 dpi to image the plate using an addressability grid of 2,540 locations per inch.

Bottom line - if you have a Quantum device then your CtP has the resolution for 10 micron Staccato.

best, gordo
 
Gordo, I have a few questions about you explanation:
1. Are these examples supposed to represent various different hypothetical platesetter designs or are you implying some plateseters, Kodak's or other brands, are able to produce variable spot sizes?

2. Do the various spot sizes in your chart come about because of a mechanical method of controlling the spot size, such as an aperture, an optical method such as a change in the projected beam size, a degree of in or out of focus, or a change in the beam power?

3. I assume that the third beam is the best one because the spot size matches the addressability grid?

4. What does optical resolution mean in this context?

5. Are you saying that the grid is addressable at 2540 locations per inch by the supplied 1 bit tiff file, but internally, the grid has an addressability of 10,000 locations per inch that the machine uses to control the spot size and shape? That each 1/2540" spot is built up of a grid of 1/10,000" in spots? The same way each screen dot is built up of a grid of addressable pixels?
 
First off. I'm not an apologist for Kodak. They should be answering these questions.

Gordo, I have a few questions about you explanation:
1. Are these examples supposed to represent various different hypothetical platesetter designs or are you implying some plateseters, Kodak's or other brands, are able to produce variable spot sizes?

They are only meant to illustrate addressability and that dpi does not tell you what the size of the exposing laser beam is.

2. Do the various spot sizes in your chart come about because of a mechanical method of controlling the spot size, such as an aperture, an optical method such as a change in the projected beam size, a degree of in or out of focus, or a change in the beam power?

The laser spot size is dependent on many factors including the laser imaging technology. It's different from device to device.

3. I assume that the third beam is the best one because the spot size matches the addressability grid?

It actually doesn't, and can't, since it's a round spot in a square hole/target. In practice the laser spot is usually larger than the target pixel.

4. What does optical resolution mean in this context?

It's the actual resolution.

5. Are you saying that the grid is addressable at 2540 locations per inch by the supplied 1 bit tiff file, but internally, the grid has an addressability of 10,000 locations per inch that the machine uses to control the spot size and shape? That each 1/2540" spot is built up of a grid of 1/10,000" in spots? The same way each screen dot is built up of a grid of addressable pixels?

Most CtP imaging lasers use a round spot of laser energy that is slightly larger (~15-20 microns) than the pixel size (10 microns) on the addressability grid. The Creo/Kodak Quantum laser spot is actually a swath of energy that is 1x10 microns in size. That swath is designed to image (paint like a roller) each 10x10 micron pixel on the 2540 (or 2400) addressability grid. That's basically the "Squarespot" technology. The imaging head design is quite capable of imaging a finer addressabiliy grid - but that is typically used/needed in security printing rather than general commercial work.

Hope that makes sense.

best, gordo
 
Just little note - a little more technical informations on Kodak pages definitely would not hurt, however, at least in the Specifications section. Optical resolution is one of the most important parameters.
All the best and thank you Gordo for sharing your valuable experiences :)

Kamil T
 
Just little note - a little more technical informations on Kodak pages definitely would not hurt, however, at least in the Specifications section.

That made me check out the Kodak website. Yikes! The SquareSpot video is silent (so who knows what the story is) and the intro to CtP video is about creating animations! Broken links. At least the art I created back in the day are still being used. ROTFL

gordo
 
Kamil,
YES, the Magnus800Q can expose plates using Staccato10, BUT, the Thermal HeadII has to be fine tuned to the plates in use. Also the press has to be in a very good condition. Only a qualified technician can calibrate your TH2 to Staccato10.



Dear all,
we can run Staccato 25 micro with decent print quality and repeatability. Some buyers want Staccato 10 micro, but i am not sure that this is achievable with our equipment. I understand all this stuff about printing press, certified thermal plates etc, but for now, my primary concern is CtP device. Seems to me, that all Kodak marketing materials and technical papers presume (more or less) that 10 m Staccato will be imaged on 10.000 dpi unit. This is something i can understand, as this must be really technically challenging. We have Magnus 800 quantum, which have far smaller resolution (2540 dpi), but according to Kodak www, Magnus 800 quantum can image Staccato 10m. Has this claim some basis in reality? What gives them the confidence to say this? Has the quantum model any special features, that Magnus 800 doesnt?
Thank you very much for yout time,

All the best
KamilT
 
PACH,
thank you for your note. In fact, this "research" was initiated by question form one of print buyers, but based on all informations collected mainly in this thread we make decision that Staccato 10 micro is not good deal (at this time). We are happy with our Staccato 25 micro, we have very good results.
Thank you and all the best,

Kamil T

Kamil,
YES, the Magnus800Q can expose plates using Staccato10, BUT, the Thermal HeadII has to be fine tuned to the plates in use. Also the press has to be in a very good condition. Only a qualified technician can calibrate your TH2 to Staccato10.
 
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