Transparency issues in Digital Printing

I'm attempting to find the best way to deal with transparency issues when sending to our Xerox 700 and C75 digital printers. Scouring the internet has turned up hundreds of others having similar issues and given me one working solution but it's not a particularly good one.

For those not familiar with the problem, when I send files containing transparency or transparency-reliant effects like drop shadows, especially when there is a mix of vector and raster imagery overlapping, our machines will print a large bounding box of inconsistent colour around all of the oftending graphic elements. This was once referred to as Yucky Discoloured Box Syndrome by a writer on InDesign Secrets.

We send our files directly to our Xerox 700 and C75 through InDesign's print dialogue. There it's processed by the Fiery FS100s attached to each machine.

The only reliable workaround for the transparency problem that I've found so far is to create a new Transparency Flattener Preset which rasterizes the entire job at the native resolution of our printers as it is sent over. This presents two main problems:

(1) It takes a very long time for my machine to process these files, and I've got the newest computer in our shop. The resulting files as they arrive in our print queue, depending on the complexity, can be as much as ten times as large as they would have otherwise been with all of the vectors intact and the rasters sent out at 600dpi. Where jobs that don't have this issue can be sent to our printers generally within 10-20 seconds, complex jobs that require flattening can sometimes take over an hour to send. This usually results in problem 2…

(2) Our computers run out of RAM before the file is able to be successfully sent to the printer. As the job progresses I bring up Activity Monitor and close every other application besides InDesign to free up as much available RAM as I can. I watch the free memory dwindle and it often gets me down to about 20mb of available ram with the job just barely making it through. Complex jobs fail every time and need to be broken down into sections small enough to clear without exhausting my memory. The iMac I'm running only came with 4gb ram and once I've got a job running in InDesign I'm down to only about 1.4gb available, so I recognize that bumping this machine up to 8gb is probably the first step if I'm going to continue rasterizing jobs.

I've tried lots of other options. In Command Workstation I've experimented with the "Optimize RGB Transparency" and "Composite Overprint" settings. Some users said that changing the printer screen mode has solved their problems, but I've experimented through the whole available range with no improvement and, besides that, there are only two screen modes that we really want to use for desirable print quality and only one of those screen modes will accurately match our press results with the colour profile I maintain.

I've also tried exporting a PDF and transferring that to our printer via Command Workstation rather than sending the job through InDesign's print dialogue. I found one user recommending that troublesome jobs be exported as PDF/X-4 as this version was supposed to place particular emphasis on the handling of transparency. In all situations this failed to have any effect and the bounding boxes printed the same.

It seems ridiculous to me that modern digital printing systems would actually have this much trouble with transparencies. Every other job I run contains drop shadows, and there's no reason that our in-house designs should prefer vector shadows over raster drop-shadows just to make our printing easier. There's probably just a solution out there that I haven't been able to find. :confused:
 
Have you tried saving them as PDF/X-1a? That will flatten the transparency. Whenever I've had transparency issues that is the first fix that I try. Often times when you view these files on the screen there will be white hairline strokes around the transparency. In every instance of that the white lines do not show up in the printed piece.

I haven't used the machine you are using, but we had an Ikon CPP-650 running Command Workstation and that fix worked every time I had a transparency problem.
 
In InDesign print dialog box - output, did you try printing composite CMYK with "simulate overprint" checked? Also, Graphics - images - send data: all. Other than that, I would suspect the Fiery rip. That's one of the reason we went from Fiery to Creo when we upgraded our Xerox machines, Creo would handle complex transparency areas much better than Fiery.
 
Oh, and I just noticed you said "Optimize RGB Transparency". Are the files you're printing in RGB or CMYK color space?
 
I have used the kit you mention (that is our old kit and on the racking).

We have seen this issue on Fiery.

Have tried every setting in InDesign without any progress.

Have also tried every setting in the Fiery rip software.

Have also tried the obvious PDF settings for trans.

We ended up exporting to PDF, which works fine and views fine but then opening up the PDF in Photoshop and flattening the file from there and resave. You will not lose any quality as you are printing at 100%.

Fiery & others for that matter, do bloat files anyhow.

If you are running a mail merge job or similar, you could also check the section that is causing the print issue, flatten that part, create a Photoshop jpeg and place that into your main artwork. Will save RAM.

Does it only affect part of the page (see above).

We have also noticed that placing PDF's over PDF's as you may do in InDesign, this can cause an identical issue with drop shadows, special effects etc.

I can help and you can contact me via my website contact form (search Google for PrintingFocus).

Thanks.

PS: I would also suggest a dedicated print server station (which you should already have) rather than running your InDesign software from the same PC/Mac.
 
Have you tried saving them as PDF/X-1a?

I just gave this a shot and Command Workstation processed and printed a completely blank sheet from a PDF/X-1A (2003) file. This may be a separate issue manifesting so I'm going to keep working on this and try to figure it out.

In InDesign print dialog box - output, did you try printing composite CMYK with "simulate overprint" checked? Also, Graphics - images - send data: all.

I've tried Composite CMYK with "simulate overprint" as well as In-RIP Separations with "simulate overprint" with no visible change to the output. I hadn't tried switching Send Data from Optimized Subsampling to All, however I just did that as a test and saw no visible change to the output.

Oh, and I just noticed you said "Optimize RGB Transparency". Are the files you're printing in RGB or CMYK color space?

Although our customer supplied files commonly contain a mixed bag of RGB and CMYK elements, we always output everything in CMYK color space. I tried this option in Command Workstation because the options in the dialogue boxes often do more than their description suggests, and it seemed like it might have an effect on transparency handling.

We ended up exporting to PDF, which works fine and views fine but then opening up the PDF in Photoshop and flattening the file from there and resave. You will not lose any quality as you are printing at 100%.

This may or may not be any more effective than using the Transparency Flattener Preset method out of InDesign. I just attempted to rasterize a 120-page book that is giving me transparency problems and it ate through my RAM before it was 20 pages in.

Also it's a bit discomforting to throw a client's files through several different conversions in several different softwares to compensate for the inability of our digital printers, however this might be unavoidable. We've already been pushing to eliminate the use of Illustrator where we can create content in InDesign with nice packaged job files, and it seems unusual to bring Photoshop into the mix.

Does it only affect part of the page (see above).

The problem affects only areas with transparencies, specifically drop shadows. This can be anywhere on the sheet that the transparency effects exist in the artwork.

We have also noticed that placing PDF's over PDF's as you may do in InDesign, this can cause an identical issue with drop shadows, special effects etc.

This is almost never done around here, unless we're patching up files supplied without bleeds by duplicating content around the edges to fill in the bleed area. But yeah I'm sure if we duplicated PDFs containing drop shadows every instance of that drop shadow would cause a transparency issue on the output.

PS: I would also suggest a dedicated print server station (which you should already have) rather than running your InDesign software from the same PC/Mac.

Essentially my workstation is the dedicated print server station as I handle most of the digital output for our shop. This is a good idea though because rather than upgrading our individual machines we could get one workhorse machine that outputs all the files.

Thanks to everyone who gave their input. I'm going to keep working with the PDF/X-1a (2004) solution and try to figure out why our Fiery produced a blank sheet. Maybe an incompatibility with the older standard, but that seems unusual.
 
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I would try PDF/X-1a:2001. That seems to have the best results for me. That "dumbs down" the file as much as it possibly can. However, that it printed blank does indeed sound like a different issue all together.
 
Not sure if you guys are on contract but I can get our tech engineer in on Monday and show an example of a similar issue.

Will see if they can shed some more light.

Sorry - did not realise it was a 120pp book!

We only ever mash up PDF (overlaps) if clients have supplied temp artwork etc and is only a quick work-around for us (but flattening in PS works in that event).

This does seem to be a Fiery issue though and never had this on our old digi creo machines.

Will report back on Monday.

Have a great weekend guys.
 
I hesitate to offer this suggestion, however Acrobat has a "sticky" checkbox in the advanced print window option for "print as image" (which rasterizes the print data). Remember to turn this option off when finished by printing another page to "unstick" this command, otherwise all future prints will be rasterized. Printing is slow, however I can't recall how slow this will be compared to other methods. I also don't know if it will remove the bounding box issue. Let the forum know how this goes!


Stephen Marsh
 
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I hesitate to offer this suggestion, however Acrobat has a "sticky" checkbox in the advanced print window option for "print as image" (which rasterizes the print data). Remember to turn this option off when finished by printing another page to "unstick" this command, otherwise all future prints will be rasterized. Printing is slow, however I can't recall how slow this will be compared to other methods. I also don't know if it will remove the bounding box issue. Let the forum know how this goes!


Stephen Marsh

We've used that 'Print as image' before, does work but really slow at times.

Any flattened image will be slow though as the page is rasterised.

Have done as you have suggested though in the past (and very recently) and can confirm that it worked for us, not sure about a large multi-page doc....
 
BTW: Your not sending this direct to the digi printer from InDesign are you?

Just read the part of your post about print times - we always save as PDF first and then send to the printer.
 
Not sure what you're dealing with in the File but about the only time we see transparency issues on our 700 anymore are when the file contains transparency with spot colors. We'll notice this if we run a pre-flight (enfocus pitstop) and either convert the file to CMYK using Enfocus Pitstop or change the option on the RIP to turn off "spot color matching". We have the older Fiery v9 and import only PDF files into the RIP which allows it to use the APPE engine instead of the older CSPI engine when you use the driver. We've done this for years and the only time we ever seem to have problems is with the aforementioned spot colors. Naturally our files are different but we see all types since we're near a university and Graphic Design students frequent our shop. Could be a bug on the new Fiery 100?
 
I hesitate to offer this suggestion, however Acrobat has a "sticky" checkbox in the advanced print window option for "print as image" (which rasterizes the print data). Remember to turn this option off when finished by printing another page to "unstick" this command, otherwise all future prints will be rasterized. Printing is slow, however I can't recall how slow this will be compared to other methods. I also don't know if it will remove the bounding box issue. Let the forum know how this goes!

Stephen Marsh

I gave this a shot with the 120-page document that I was testing with last week. The output showed no transparency bounding boxes so this method certainly works. I'm essentially doing the same thing out of InDesign with the transparancy flattener preset method.

The process was slightly faster through InDesign (by minute, about 5% faster) likely due to my ability to specify not only the resolution rendered for artwork but the resolution rendered for gradients & meshes. Where I'm outputting at 600dpi for full artwork I've scaled the gradient resolution down to 300dpi because I saw no visible improvement in shadow gradation on our machines at any higher resolution than this. Acrobat allows a user to select the resolution to output the image at, but it can be assumed that it applies that resolution selection to everything.

So, the Acrobat method is another tool in the belt for stubborn situations but since it wasn't any faster for this particular job I'll probably avoid sending the file to another program for processing.

BTW: Your not sending this direct to the digi printer from InDesign are you?

Just read the part of your post about print times - we always save as PDF first and then send to the printer.

We send from InDesign to the hold queues and assign all the proper print settings (weight, colour profiles, print screens etc) within Command Workstation before sending it to print.

When we had the C75 installed, I was talking to a colour specialist from Xerox and he casually mentioned that we can drag and drop PDF files into the hold queue, and that many of his clients work that way. I've also read that the Adobe PDF Print Engine has been designed specifically to address transparency issues, but it looks like APPE isn't supported by our Integrated Fiery (it lists theFiery EX Print Server and the Freeflow Print Server.)

I'll probably need to get in touch with this guy and dig a little deeper. When I drag and drop PDF files into the hold queue, any transparency issues that might present themselves are in full effect and I don't have any method to fix the problem within Command Workstation. On simple jobs with no transparencies dragging on PDF files works fine, but it's not really any faster for me than sending from InDesign since that's where I create my imposition.

Not sure what you're dealing with in the File but about the only time we see transparency issues on our 700 anymore are when the file contains transparency with spot colors. We'll notice this if we run a pre-flight (enfocus pitstop) and either convert the file to CMYK using Enfocus Pitstop or change the option on the RIP to turn off "spot color matching". We have the older Fiery v9 and import only PDF files into the RIP which allows it to use the APPE engine instead of the older CSPI engine when you use the driver. We've done this for years and the only time we ever seem to have problems is with the aforementioned spot colors. Naturally our files are different but we see all types since we're near a university and Graphic Design students frequent our shop. Could be a bug on the new Fiery 100?

If I have a file with transparency issues, I still get those transparency issues even after selecting All Spots to Process. Because the presence of spot colours doesn't seem to be causing my transparency issues, I generally like to send files over with the spots intact so that I can make targeted spot colour adjustments without having to apply curves to the entire document.

I was recently reading about the APPE and it seemed to me that it was only available on the more recent Fiery EX Print Server and Freeflow Print Servers. I'll have to figure out if this feature is available to us (initial tests kind of suggest that it's not.)

Just thinking - does "Composite Overprint" need to be turned on/checked?

I've tried it both ways and not seen a difference. This is what is recommended all over the internet so I was definitely disappointed to see that it did not make an improvement. :confused:

this works for me. After you save it as a PDF go into acrobat > tool > preflight

What preflight profile are you running that has worked for you? I've run Flatten Transparency (High Resolution) in the past and actually not seen a difference in my output. Besides that I've only ever used the Acrobat Preflight to convert supplied PDF files to Greyscale.

-----

Looks like work piled up around me over the weekend, so I'll probably have to step away from troubleshooting this issue for a day or two. I'm going to get in touch with the colour specialist at Xerox and see what he can send me. I've still got to figure out why older PDF versions print as blank pages when they go through our Fiery.

Thanks for the suggestions from everybody! If I ever get to the bottom of this I'll try to get the solution to spread around the internet so the next person in my situation can get on with their day.
 
I see this a lot in CS5 InDesign files. It happens when the text is underneath the graphic / image. It's trapping the transparency to the text. Move text to top layer and it will clear it up (almost always). Just one more thing to preflight! Happy printing!
Erik
 
Unless you really need to try to match spot colors in your final printing, make sure from InDesign that all colors are defined as process cmyk; the funky box thing happens most often, in our experience - and we do have Xerox 700's with the Fiery rip - when the spot colors keep their spot definition through the print or export to pdf process. I am not certain that printing as composite cmyk entirely over-rides the spot info.

It is a quick change to use the Ink Manager, from either the swatches pallet or the Separations preview pallet, to have all spots convert to process.
 
Transparency issues in Digital Printing

I have encountered the same problem but if I make my pdfs through the print dialog box in Indesign instead of export to pdf, the transparency works every time. It is the opposite in Quark. If you export to pdf in Quark and make sure you check the box "use native transparency" it works perfectly.
 
I have encountered the same problem but if I make my pdfs through the print dialog box in Indesign instead of export to pdf, the transparency works every time. It is the opposite in Quark. If you export to pdf in Quark and make sure you check the box "use native transparency" it works perfectly.

You have to have a relatively recent version of Quark to have the "native transparency" option, I think it became available with 8.1 or 2, was not in the original version of 8 (I think it is 8, rarely use Quark anymore...). All earlier versions just flattened transparency into the pdf. Not necessarily a bad thing, just not very flexible.
 

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