UV vs Conventional Printing

[CD102]

I've been a folding carton guy my whole life. The plant where I worked never printed with UV and we rarely printed on anything exotic such as foil or poly-faced board. Recently there was a printer in my area with an opening, but they make gift cards on PVC with UV inks and coatings. Because there are so many printers out of work who have experience with these inks and substrates, I've already been told I will not be offered a job. Why teach an old dog new tricks when you can get dogs that are already trained?

Anyway, I'd like to learn something about printing with UV inks and coatings on PVC and other plastics just out of curiosity, not that I think I'll ever get the chance to use that information on a job. If anyone can suggest some reference material, I'd appreciate it. What are the pitfalls? What are the things you have to watch out for?

Thanks!

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

Printing on plastic. Watch fors.
Static- Press needs a good anti static system, De-inonized air at the feeder helps as well.
Surface tension- Make sure the dyne level of the stock is withing an acceptable level, this is usually checked using a dyne pen.(poor ink adhesion will result if this is not correct)
ink/water- Plastic wont absorb water the way board or paper does so carrying the minimum(which you should always do anyway) will prevent a lot of headaches. (poor ink cure could happen if the ink is oveloaded with water not to mention all kinds of other print issues)
Press settings- UV has a much smaller operating window than conventional and with plastic its even smaller, monitor your rollers/dampening settings closer, always monitor your Conductivity and keep the fountain solution system extra clean.
Blankets- UV blankets are prone to 'embossing', dont be surprised if you are using more blankets.
Ink- Dont mix anything into UV ink that has not been sanctioned by the ink maker(extender/reducer or your ink cure can be compromised)
press side tests- pratice quality control on your sheet,( tape adhesion tests, scratch tests to ensure ink wont rub off during post press operations)
If you pratice good pressmanship running a conventional press then running UV on plastic is not so bad.
Hope this help get you started, lots of info on the web and in this site so i'm sure you'll get other information.

 

[CD102]

Thanks for the info!

 

[A BETTER WAY]

There is no need for UV to print these kind of products.

It is being done with regular offset presses.

BestChem+Supply can help.

 

[CD102]

Well, as someone who was applying for a job, I wasn't in a position where I could suggest that maybe they should run their work differently. Right now I'm hoping to get a job on the feeder end of the press and then I could learn UV as a course of natural progression of the job.

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

There is no need for UV to print these kind of products.

It is being done with regular offset presses.

BestChem+Supply can help.

Ok A BETTER WAY so now you have my interest, are you saying that I can print on plastic/Foil stock, full ink coverages/heavy solids, full loads out of the delivery at full press speed and straight into my die cutter without using UV. Please tell me more.

 

[A BETTER WAY]

Ok A BETTER WAY so now you have my interest, are you saying that I can print on plastic/Foil stock, full ink coverages/heavy solids, full loads out of the delivery at full press speed and straight into my die cutter without using UV. Please tell me more.

Send a purchase order and we can make it happen for you.

 

[J]

Send a purchase order and we can make it happen for you.

What a load of...

Could you imagine any other industry salesman making all kinds of wild claims and then saying...well, just buy it and then "I'll make it happen for you."

If you make a claim then you should be prepared to back it up. Based on that backup a prospect can make an informed decision as to whether you have a viable solution, or not.

Disgusted, J

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

Send a purchase order and we can make it happen for you.

A BETTER WAY. Please inform us of the materials and methods you are suggesting to eliminate the need for UV printing on my sheetfed press. If your company can truly do this and you provide me with references along with contacts and phone numbers of companies that have eliminated UV from their process using your materials and still have the same results we can talk further. Looking forward to some interesting information from you.l

 

[Cold]

Ok A BETTER WAY so now you have my interest, are you saying that I can print on plastic/Foil stock, full ink coverages/heavy solids, full loads out of the delivery at full press speed and straight into my die cutter without using UV. Please tell me more.

"full loads out of the delivery at full press speed and straight into my die cutter without using UV."

This is the difference between UV and conventional. Sure, I can make a conventional ink adhere to anything that UV will adhere to, but full loads straight to finishing is where I balk with oxidative inks. A Better Way has my interest as well.

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

"full loads out of the delivery at full press speed and straight into my die cutter without using UV."

This is the difference between UV and conventional. Sure, I can make a conventional ink adhere to anything that UV will adhere to, but full loads straight to finishing is where I balk with oxidative inks. A Better Way has my interest as well.

Dont forget about adhesion, scratch resistance and Gloss of high 90's all good atributes of UV.
Bring it on Better Way we need your products.

 

[The Heidelberg Guy]

Dont forget about adhesion, scratch resistance and Gloss of high 90's all good atributes of UV.
Bring it on Better Way we need your products.

Cant happen..... Will not happen!

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

I know that but 'Better Way' seems to think it can!!

 

[The Heidelberg Guy]

I know that but 'Better Way' seems to think it can!!

Well understood my friend, I would like to know how too LOL

 

[Adan Daroski]

Re: UV vs Conventional Printing

At Drupa 2004 there was a new Espresso CTP product from Esko-Graphics. Conventional printing plates are imaged, this is CTcP, using a UV lamp as its light source instead of high priced lasers and digital plates. Folks at DRUPA said the output resolution looks very good. Esko-Graphics has installed an imaging head onto the Esko Scanner, a powerful UV light with, Digital Mirror and a lens.


Thanks
__________
Techstore are specialists in a range of Printing Services

 

[Russell745]

Not Entirely Impossible

Not Entirely Impossible

As a supplier of printable plastics I will tell you that it is not entirely out of the question.
The first fundamental is that when printing on a plastic on a conventional press it will need to have a matte finish on two sides. The matte finish will provide microscopic peaks and valleys giving the ink a place to "bite". This is referred to as the Roughness Average or RA. Look for an RA in the 60s at least. You will need to use a very high solid ink with a minimal amount of solvents. As plastics are non-porous too much solvent in the ink will have nowhere to go and will spew out. Granted you will not be able to run 15,000 sheets per hour but depending on the thickness of the stock you could, with some practice get that number into the 8,000-10,000 range. All bets are off when trying gloss/gloss plastic on a conventional press as the ink will never set and dry. I've met a few who have claimed to be able to do it but I'm skeptical.

 

[vik la luna]

Iin terms of overall production and quality ,UV is the way to go on plastics
yes , conventional vynl inks will work but at a much slower pace
adhesion and scratch resistance may ultimately be not as good as UV
turnaround time will also be slower
however,Mr Better Way if you so confident about your product why ask for a PO
send us a sample(s)and we will compare it to UV
or arrange for a demo

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

Mr Better Way has been very quiet lately. I was waiting for some proof of his claims in the form of some contacts that have used his products and eliminated UV. Alas I wait in vain

 

[Printpro]

I have been sitting back reading how you are have been having fun with A BETTER WAYS claims. They are not too far off the mark.

This printing system A BETTER WAY is talking about does exist and is in use on a daily basis. I use it everyday in a high end commercial shop. It is considered a conventional ink and fountain solution system. The ink and fountain solution are designed to work together. It is very clean as far as chemicals are considered. No health hazards. The only claim that I can't reproduce is the direct from delivery to cutter. We print styrene, vinyl, foil.... with heavy 4 color blacks and I have to wait about 3 hours before I can die cut or trim.

The only thing UV has on the system we use is the 3 hours I have to wait to send to finishing. I don't have to deal with any of the issues a UV printer has to such as curing or over heating a sub-straight. When you considered the additional cost of UV and the health hazards it potentially has on employees the 3 hours is negligible.

So as far as I am concerned keep using your UV I will continue to use the system A BETTER WAY is talking about. After all you did have to spend a considerable amount more for your UV press. I do this day in and day out on a conventional press.

Printpro

 

[Cornishpastythighs]

Thats great Printpro, as a packaging/folding carton printer we run plastic, foil and heavy ink coverage cartons that require a gloss of somewhere around 96+* and super duper adhesion and then run our cartons straight through die cutting then onto glueing and onto the truck. We dont suffer from many of the UV issues that you are claiming and please elaborate on the Health issues. If you are saying that I can do all of these things without using UV then of course I for one will apologize to A BETTER WAY as soon as I get from him contacts from other packaging printers who have switched from UV to conventional inks.