Versant 180 Envelope Color Nightmare

ReproElectroProspero

Well-known member
Update: Have the tech in right now. Says our 2nd BTR is about 1/2 expected life and doesn't want to replace it. Says he may be unable to fix. I want him to replace it anyway, but I don't think he's keen on it. I mentioned that we also run a lot of coated stocks (Titan Gloss Cover and Text)...but I think Xerox corporate is limiting parts and he'll be penalized for replacing early. He's going to look at other options. Fingers crossed, but I'm not hopeful. I really hope my funding comes through next year so I can get a memjet.
 

TJPrinter

Well-known member
When you run coated stock do you ever have streaking on the back side of the print? Running coated stock shortens the life of the roller on the 2nd btr considerably. When you start getting the streaking then there's no option but to replace it, even if it's only at 1/3 of the expected life. Not saying that this is the problem but just know that it's not unusual at all for the Versant to have a 2nd btr fail before it's life expectancy. It's been a problem on all the Versants and still is. I've only been getting 50,000 clicks out of mine before it needs to be replaced (shows streaking).

I have run 70lb #10 envelopes but not very often. I had to run 70lb A7 envelopes because of paper shortages and too my surprise they ran very well. I would try a different brand of 24lb white wove to see if you can get better results.

When Xerox provides there own print samples prior to a sale one of the items is a #10 envelope with some pretty heavy coverage so they know it's capable of this type of work.

Xerox has many levels of support and I'm sure some others could comment better on this but I had a tech that said he talked with what they called "deep dive" to get answers. I wouldn't give up yet on getting this resolved to your satisfaction.

I'm not a particularly picky person and I do whatever I can myself to keep the Versant running smoothly. But before I get a new machine I always have test prints run and then after the machine is installed I run the same tests prints on the new machine. All those prints go in a sealed box and if I ever have a problem I'd pull out those prints and say fix it. I've never had to do this and I'm very happy with the service that I've received from Xerox direct and now from a dealer. But we all pay for quality and the guy down the road will take my business if my quality sucks because someone doesn't know how to resolve a quality issue.
 

PricelineNegotiator

Well-known member
Update: Have the tech in right now. Says our 2nd BTR is about 1/2 expected life and doesn't want to replace it. Says he may be unable to fix. I want him to replace it anyway, but I don't think he's keen on it. I mentioned that we also run a lot of coated stocks (Titan Gloss Cover and Text)...but I think Xerox corporate is limiting parts and he'll be penalized for replacing early. He's going to look at other options. Fingers crossed, but I'm not hopeful. I really hope my funding comes through next year so I can get a memjet.
If the issue doesn't go away, he wins. What's the issue with putting a new part in to test it? Major red flag - as mentioned by another user it's 5 minutes to replace the part.

Sounds like your tech is incompetent.
 

ReproElectroProspero

Well-known member
If the issue doesn't go away, he wins. What's the issue with putting a new part in to test it? Major red flag - as mentioned by another user it's 5 minutes to replace the part.

Sounds like your tech is incompetent.
He claims that because this only happens on envelopes and no other stocks, it's definitely not the 2nd BTR or issues would show up on all stocks.
 

ReproElectroProspero

Well-known member
When you run coated stock do you ever have streaking on the back side of the print? Running coated stock shortens the life of the roller on the 2nd btr considerably. When you start getting the streaking then there's no option but to replace it, even if it's only at 1/3 of the expected life. Not saying that this is the problem but just know that it's not unusual at all for the Versant to have a 2nd btr fail before it's life expectancy. It's been a problem on all the Versants and still is. I've only been getting 50,000 clicks out of mine before it needs to be replaced (shows streaking).

I have run 70lb #10 envelopes but not very often. I had to run 70lb A7 envelopes because of paper shortages and too my surprise they ran very well. I would try a different brand of 24lb white wove to see if you can get better results.

When Xerox provides there own print samples prior to a sale one of the items is a #10 envelope with some pretty heavy coverage so they know it's capable of this type of work.

Xerox has many levels of support and I'm sure some others could comment better on this but I had a tech that said he talked with what they called "deep dive" to get answers. I wouldn't give up yet on getting this resolved to your satisfaction.

I'm not a particularly picky person and I do whatever I can myself to keep the Versant running smoothly. But before I get a new machine I always have test prints run and then after the machine is installed I run the same tests prints on the new machine. All those prints go in a sealed box and if I ever have a problem I'd pull out those prints and say fix it. I've never had to do this and I'm very happy with the service that I've received from Xerox direct and now from a dealer. But we all pay for quality and the guy down the road will take my business if my quality sucks because someone doesn't know how to resolve a quality issue.
Can you take a photo of the kind of streaking you are talking about? I have seen streaking in the past but never to the point I'd put a service call in on it - figured only us print nerds would notice it. We do run a ton of glossy titan text and cover tho - I could just be overlooking it as quality our number one priority normally - turnaround time for our inplant clients is.
 

adriansto

Well-known member
Can you take a photo of the kind of streaking you are talking about? I have seen streaking in the past but never to the point I'd put a service call in on it - figured only us print nerds would notice it. We do run a ton of glossy titan text and cover tho - I could just be overlooking it as quality our number one priority normally - turnaround time for our inplant clients is.
What firmware version is on machine ?
There are software patch for 2ndBTR.
 

ReproElectroProspero

Well-known member
What firmware version is on machine ?
There are software patch for 2ndBTR.
So I looked all over on the machine in the administrator menus and couldn't find it. However, when I went over to the rip (We use FreeFlow) and opened up the System Configuration window I found a software version number that I think may be what you're asking for.

It says: 93.10.04A.86

If that's not the right software number report, can you please let me know where to look?
 

PricelineNegotiator

Well-known member
He claims that because this only happens on envelopes and no other stocks, it's definitely not the 2nd BTR or issues would show up on all stocks.
My other thought was the developer housing could be the culprit. It's certainly a transfer issue.

But my statement still stands - it's a 5 minute job to replace the 2nd BTR. Takes less time to replace and test than to argue about why not to change it.
 

TJPrinter

Well-known member
Can you take a photo of the kind of streaking you are talking about? I have seen streaking in the past but never to the point I'd put a service call in on it - figured only us print nerds would notice it. We do run a ton of glossy titan text and cover tho - I could just be overlooking it as quality our number one priority normally - turnaround time for our inplant clients is.
I can't take a picture because the streaking only shows up after the roller on the 2nd btr unit becomes defective, mostly from running coated stock. The streaking will be most evident on coated stock and it will appear on the back side of the print. So if you run 4/0 you may never notice it unless you look at the back of the sheet. On 4/4 it will be on both sides and appear as light black or color streaking that goes from end to end of the sheet (top-bottom). Most of the time it will start to appear at the edges of the sheet first. You can visually inspect the roller on the 2nd btr, if it's not smooth and a bit shiny but has markings that look like scratches around the roller then it is going bad or is bad and will transfer those marks to the back of the sheets as they pass over it.

Is it the 2nd btr? I can't be sure but I agree with pricelinenegotiator that it's a transfer issue and you're tech should be helping you resolve it. I'm curious, does your tech work on only production machines or does he work on office machines too?
 

Milo Wilson

Well-known member
There is a firmware update for the 2nd btr that addresses that. It can be accessed through the touch screen of the printer.
 

ReproElectroProspero

Well-known member
I can't take a picture because the streaking only shows up after the roller on the 2nd btr unit becomes defective, mostly from running coated stock. The streaking will be most evident on coated stock and it will appear on the back side of the print. So if you run 4/0 you may never notice it unless you look at the back of the sheet. On 4/4 it will be on both sides and appear as light black or color streaking that goes from end to end of the sheet (top-bottom). Most of the time it will start to appear at the edges of the sheet first. You can visually inspect the roller on the 2nd btr, if it's not smooth and a bit shiny but has markings that look like scratches around the roller then it is going bad or is bad and will transfer those marks to the back of the sheets as they pass over it.

Is it the 2nd btr? I can't be sure but I agree with pricelinenegotiator that it's a transfer issue and you're tech should be helping you resolve it. I'm curious, does your tech work on only production machines or does he work on office machines too?
The attached scans are of full cyan coverage on some of our standard stocks. There's a couple of fingerprints that aren't from the output of the printer, but it does seem streaky...especially around one of the edges...might be a drum issue but I only have one left so I'm not changing it yet lol.

As far as our tech...he's one of two guys left that cover our entire state. Xerox is really runnin' a barebones operation here seems like.

There is a firmware update for the 2nd btr that addresses that. It can be accessed through the touch screen of the printer.
Where exactly would I look for this?
 

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Milo Wilson

Well-known member
The attached scans are of full cyan coverage on some of our standard stocks. There's a couple of fingerprints that aren't from the output of the printer, but it does seem streaky...especially around one of the edges...might be a drum issue but I only have one left so I'm not changing it yet lol.

As far as our tech...he's one of two guys left that cover our entire state. Xerox is really runnin' a barebones operation here seems like.


Where exactly would I look for this?
There is a tab on the main screen for software level
 

ReproElectroProspero

Well-known member
There is a tab on the main screen for software level
Doh! I was looking all over in the Admin menus, how observant of me :rolleyes:

System: 80.51.1
Controller Rom: 1.204.1
IOT Rom: 57.1.0
HCF Rom: 24.111.0
Finisher D Rom: 15.37.0
HCS Rom: 2.21.0
ADF Rom: 13.22.0
Panel Rom: 10.17.4
Boot Rom: 1.0.43
SJFI: 3.6.1
SSMI: 1.22.7
RSEP: 4.0.16
CDM Rom: 3.35.0
IP Rom: 0.24.0
Booklet Rom: 2.00
Folder Rom: 2.00
Puncher Rom: 2.00
 

TJPrinter

Well-known member
The attached scans are of full cyan coverage on some of our standard stocks. There's a couple of fingerprints that aren't from the output of the printer, but it does seem streaky...especially around one of the edges...might be a drum issue but I only have one left so I'm not changing it yet lol.

As far as our tech...he's one of two guys left that cover our entire state. Xerox is really runnin' a barebones operation here seems like.


Where exactly would I look for this?
I think Xerox is running thin everywhere. It's becoming concerning for the long term.

I see some thin lines in the sheets on one side but they look like the lines that the Versant sometimes leaves when the sheet goes through the duplex unit. Not sure what in the duplex unit causes it but I've been able to reduce it by increasing the fuser temperature when I see it.

If you have some linen cover you may want to see if you can get a good transfer on that by setting up a custom paper and using the image transfer adjustment. Linen cover can be a bit challenging on the Versant for heavy coverage but if you can get good image transfer on the linen cover you should be able to get good results on the #10.

Milo Wilson makes a good point about the firmware being older.
 

adriansto

Well-known member
This is what the Xerox say about these problems :


2nd BTR streaks and filming is a product of media coatings and heat buildup within the IOT.
Additives from certain silk and matte coated media to become “sticky” after fusing. When duplexed media passes back through the 2nd BTR, the still warm/sticky additives from the media contaminate the duplex paper path and the 2nd BTR roll.

1 The customer should be using recommend media from RML, or equivalent media if RML media is unavailable.

2 Confirm that the machine is running in the recommended
environment of 68-76° F/20-24° C and 45% humidity. This is in the CED and is expected of the customer.Uncontrolled environments, especially in warmer climates, make the problem worse due to excessive heat.

3 Ensure that the correct 2nd BTR is being used for the IOT configuration.

4 Load new software and scripts available that will help reduce contamination.

**The software and the new script must be applied together to obtain the full benefit.

Note:

To avoid possible BCO after loading the 2nd BTR life improvement scripts:

Run dc942 Procon On page 2x
Run 100 duplex total charts (11x17 or A3 90gsm or equivalent)
Run dc942 Procon On page 2x again

Software that was previously listed as SPAR is now available as a general release. See details below for each product.

V80 - Install 80.35.41b (or higher) - and then apply the script 2BTRLife_NVMWriteScript_V80_V180_20210317.csv. Both the SW and scripts are in the same Zip file and can be obtained from GSN library 14471.

V180 - Install 80.53.11b (or higher) - and then apply the script 2BTRLife_NVMWriteScript_V80_V180_20210317.csv. Both the SW and scripts are in the same Zip file and can be obtained from GSN library 14471.

5 The latest 2nd BTR for the V180/3100 (859K07316) is recommended for accounts that are experiencing very low 2nd BTR life.
 

Stickman42

Well-known member
My Xerox tech said to me this morning that last week he was told by his manager to pull a USED 2nd BTR from a trade-in machine lined up to be refurbished, due to lack of inventory. It's looking worse and worse.
 

Milo Wilson

Well-known member
There really isn't anything wrong with using a rebuilt 2nd BTR. As long as it's done correctly. The firmware update will definitely increase the life though.
 

namelessentity

Well-known member
There's a tech shortage in Canon as well. I think the pay is pretty mediocre, and the hours are awful. Our techs all started retiring and no one new is coming in to take their place.

Also, you might want to get in touch with your service manager if your tech is so reluctant to change parts out.
 

TJPrinter

Well-known member
There really isn't anything wrong with using a rebuilt 2nd BTR. As long as it's done correctly. The firmware update will definitely increase the life though.
I wish that were always the case. I have a new V280 that is all up to date and have been averaging 50,000 clicks before it needs to be replaced. It's not even half full of toner either, it's the roller that keeps failing because of the coated stock.

My Xerox tech said to me this morning that last week he was told by his manager to pull a USED 2nd BTR from a trade-in machine lined up to be refurbished, due to lack of inventory. It's looking worse and worse.
I asked the tech to leave the last one he pulled and I ordered 2 replacement rollers on my own just in case he can't get a 2nd BTR unit next time. You're right, it's not looking good at all.
 

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