what is a good Entry Level Print Machine?

klay

New member
Hi
im new to the board! im young a graphic designer and i want to start getting into printing as well...i dont know much about what equipment to look at or anything really

i want something i can do full color color printing. but every 4-color machine i have seen online says they are like $200,000!!! :( and i dont have a budget like that at all

what would be your suggestions for a very small press that can do full-color? something i can start out with and eventually build my way up

any feedback would be greatly appreciated!
 
Hi Klay - Welcome to the boards!

I'm confident this question is going to get a lot of responses.

When you say you want to start getting into printing, does this mean as a graphic designer you already have a large enough client base to keep an offset printing press running??
What kind of presses are you looking at for 200K? Dont get me wrong printing presses are expensive, but if your just starting out, I think we need to put you into a more cost effective direction.

the printing business right now is very competitive, can you fill us in on what you want to print and specialize in, whether it be along the lines of basic stationery or like you mentioned full color work? such as flyers, sell sheets, brochures etc...

I also know you mentioned a budget, keep in mind the cost of the press is just the base of printing. Then if your not going to run it yourself, then you need to hire a pressmen and salarys arent cheap. Then you need to consider the cost to produce plates, and in the demanding industry right now Computer to plate is the only way to go, and those can be as cheap or expensive as $30,000 to $100,000+++
Then take the expense of all your inks, chemicals, blankets for the press if anything happens to them - These will add up fast, trust me.
Then if you want to do in house bindery that can be a whole different budget.

I hate to be brutally honest, but places with only one or 2 presses, at least in my area, are not lasting and can not compete in the printing industry and are shutting down,

I recommend you consider looking to the digital printing field. They are far more easier to run then presses, depending on the size of the run, they can be far more cost effective. you Can get yourself a nice high quality color production copier for $30,000 that will crank out very good work, and they practically run themselves once set up, so you can be designing while its printing. If you want a low end production copier, then you can spend as cheap as $10,000 if not less.

Hopefully this helps, but there a lot of good people here and they will certainly give their feedback as well (P.S. - Sorry for the long post)
 
Klay,

You could go with a Ryobi 3302, Hamada 234, Ryobi 512, Ryobi 3304 etc. I am an equipment dealer, so you have numerous choices based on what you want to spend.
 
givbob is right, there are endless options on presses that will work in the 4color process world. If you want to spend very little, you can technically run full color jobs by running it through the press twice, resulting in more run time, or spend a little more and run it all in one pass. Then you have to consider how big of a press sheet you want to print, and what the volume of work will be, if you only want to print a max sheet of say 11.5 x 17.5 then those presses are far more cheaper then a 19 x 25 press. We have both a 3302 and 3304 where i work now (2 of the presses givbob mentions) they both will work, but you have to consider whether its worth it to you to run your jobs through the press once or twice.
But these presses are not built to handle 200 line screens like a lot of big shops print with.
If I could make an additional option, try to work with a printer in your area as well as a high end copy shop if they are available, and try to work on brokering work with them. They charge you a brokered reduced price, you mark it up say 50% and you charge your client that, then you just pay your vendor that prints it for you. You might not make a killing at it at first, but at least you can build a relationship with clients and get a list of people who like to order through you, then if the business gets busier, then maybe consider doing some of their work in house yourself resulting in hopefully more profit.
 
hey thanks guys,
im just looking for printing Flyers, business cards & cd covers, etc., on like a 12pt paper. nothing really major and nothing bigger then 11x17 really.
i dont want to open up a print shop but i just want to be able to offer that service to my clients, i most likely would be wanting to run it out of my basement or a small rented space
how much do those machines usually go for? (3302 & 3304)
also i wouldnt mind running it through twice, but would it line up correctly and not shift from the spot the 1st run printed on the sheet?

the broker suggestion also sounds like a good option aswell thanks
 
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I think givbob is the best one to answer the cost question. Aes far as your registration question goes, thats a tough area - I would suppose it would depend on the length on the initial run, but in theory most presses are never dead on as far as registration goes from sheet to sheet. Running it through twice is ok to do, but if you think your going to be doing more along the lines of color sensitive work, I would only recommend a 4 color press, as color can be adjusted more accurately as you go. There is a section on PrintPlanet for items for sale, you never know maybe someone is selling a small press. You have to also investigate the cost of prepress equipment and plate making equipment as well. It may not be a bad idea to contact a local print shop and ask them if they do broker work, dont be surprised if you find a dealer that specializes in broker work, and maybe you can tour their facilty to see the equipment they use
 
Klay,

In my opinion you are getting some bad advice. If you have never run a printing press, it can be quite challenging, especially if you are looking to produce quality process work immediately and on a duplicator (3302, 3304). From what you have said, money is tight so it doesn't sound like you are looking to hire a pressman, it sounds to me like you want to learn running the press yourself. I think you need to consider a quality trade printer, which I assume is what you are using now or you need to buy a digital machine that does not require the skill of a press. You will struggle producing good quality on a 3302 without press experience. Especially 4/4 where you have to run the sheet through the press 4 times.
 
I agree with cda 77. A Ryobi is a complicated machine to run. It would take someone at least 2 years of experience full time to even consider running process especially 4/4 on that machine. I would think in most cases that you would have to run that job through at least 6 times. You will have to depowder the sheets after each pass. Registration is real tough on that machine that a lot of operators that have been running that machine for years can not master. Digital is the only way to go. There is way too much compitition out there. We have a 5 color speedmaster with pre press interface and can run 4 process jobs an hour and we have trouble competing with the 40 inch presses.
 
you guys are being too tough. printing is easy anybody can do it. get a 2 color gto and you can do it all. the press practically runs itself. you will need a big garage to run a small shop. sounds like your more of a hobbie on the side kind of guy. you can make a little money that way. short run. but really you could make just as much farming out the work, so why bother with the press. concentrate on the design work.
 
klay, sorry to be cruel and destroy your dream, but get out of this industry when you are in time.
Don't get involved in printing.
Only if you have "ink in your veins" can take this trade
I love it but I wish I had an alternative job to go to.
Every backyard printer I know is gone busted long time ago
Can't compete with the big guns!
 
Dear Clay

1-our friends are wright for one thing :you need a good press opearator if you want to purchase a 3302, be sure that the press is at leat refurbished by a good technician...bad press = bad operator...a good press operator with ''ink in it's veins'' won't run a bad press!

2-Using Richo, Canon and other brands in the numeric world is not a easy way to start, maybe for the first 6 months but after you will have : drums problem, fixing problem, registration problem...those problems are $$$$

3- Easy way for CMYK works for you is to find a TRADE Printer...

Sorry for my bad english!

Pat
 
RYOBI 512 is a good entry level press to start with. We mostly run 2 colour printing and there is a huge market for it i.e. business cards, letterheads, compliment slips etc...
It's really what market you want to get into.
It has good rolling power than other 2 colour presses but unsure of the ryobi 3302.
But we have also ran 4 colour jobs. Its a great machine and looks quite modern and quite tidy in the press room. A great landscape printer.
 
ABdick press are easy to run, you can run up to 11x17 sheet.

I have 8820 ABdick with a T-Head unit for two color printing.
view my portfolio in DCL Graphics for some sample of kind printing you can do with ABdick press


David C. Lopez
DCL Graphics
 

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i would go with a hamada 452, these are extremely reliable, reasonable run speed (10,000ph), cip3 for quick make ready. easy to run as well
 
Do n't go that route. A decent multi colour press will cost you many times the $200000 you mentioned. If you have enough work to keep a press running for say half a shift consider becoming a print broker and use other peoples presses
 
Frankly klay there is a lot of sound advice that has been posted.

I agree with the 2 color GTO as your best starter press, but it all depends on what you're printing.

If a majority of your work is going to be 2 color or less you may want to look at a 2 color Heidelberg QM46; this press is sweet press and it will cost you well below $100K. For starters, you're also going to need a platesetter for producing plates and some sort of guillotine cutter, otherwise a press by itself will do you no good.

If you're jobs are primarily four color than the 2 color GTO is better for starters.

We have a 5 color GTO, which replaced a 4 color Ryobi 3304 and we have printed 4 color on the 2 color Ryobi 3302 many many moons ago. And frankly the 2 color GTO will serve you best, in the beginning.

We also have a ABDick 8820 with a T-Head and yes it's an easy press to run--even I can run it. But if you can swing it you're much better off QM46; this press runs rings around any ABDick press.

But Klay, if it's four color your going to do most look for a good trade printer until you can build up the business.
 
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Personally if I was in your position.
Pick up a trade magazine, go to the back and farm the work to a trade printer.
This way you can make your money on the design and make a little money on the printing.
You said you didn't want to open a shop, so thats what I'd do.
Then you won't have all the expense of a press, platemaker, probably folder and cutter.
You can get single color sheets, envelopes, forms to full color work.
You didn't say where you are located so try to pick someone in your region for shipping reasons (ground is a lot cheaper). You can buy a good high end laser printer or a smaller copier to do short run work.
Hope this helps
 
you guys are being too tough. printing is easy anybody can do it. get a 2 color gto and you can do it all. the press practically runs itself. you will need a big garage to run a small shop. sounds like your more of a hobbie on the side kind of guy. you can make a little money that way. short run. but really you could make just as much farming out the work, so why bother with the press. concentrate on the design work.

I'm not going to start an argument here but i fail to see how anyone can say running 4/4 work on a 2 colour gto is easy, especially if you hope to get paid for it!

Someone with no press experience will not have a hope in hell of producing todays quality. The days of 1 or 2 colour presses in garages or basements are long gone i feel. Printing is now a fiercly aggressive and competitive market.

I would farm it out to an understanding trade shop or look at a digital copier maybe with online finishing too for short run stuff. Personally, in the current market i would not spend a penny on machinery, i'd look for an existing shop to help me out.

If he was an experienced pressman with redundancy cash, that maybe different, but not from scratch.
 
I agree.
Farm out to a trade shop(s).
No kinkos or any other franshise, but a real printer to the trade.
This way you can concentrate on the design and not running a press 'til midnight.
You can self teach yourself on a small AB Dick or Ryobi press.
But you'll still need other equipment if you want to produce something worth selling.
 

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