Why is the Konica $1/2 the xerox

jdunning

Member
Just came from a small printshow and was looking at the new Bizhub, a direct competition for the Xerox 800 and I have to ask why is it almost Half the price?
 
It's a good question!

Also take into consideration the click prices... the prices which have been mentioned for the Color800/1000s seem to be higher than the other Xerox machines 7/8002s whereas Konica have always been more competitive anyway.

I guess it comes down to the fact Konica are still a relatively new player in the marketplace.

On paper though the Bizhub 8000 looks better than a Color 800... 8bit imaging, built in calibration etc etc.
 
To pay for the "speak fluent bullshit" course that all their sales reps have to attend prior to being let loose?
 
I guess it may have been due to the difference in technology and printing quality?? (wild guess anyway)

I've seen X700 before but not 800 nor the new KM.

Just read thru the spec, apparently X800 having 2400 x 2400 x 1 resolution. Despite so, the price is still a way gap. I do agreed with Josh bout - Konica is relatively new player in the marketplace
 
Resolution is not a factor but if you want to split hairs the 8000 can address 3 different sections of each dot so effectively is 1200x3600. I would keep with xeroxs new tag line "let's not talk about resolution". As for clicks, if your dealer is adopting the coverage based click charges you will be able to match offset on some of your jobs.
 
because they are robbers, they need to change there pricing structure soon or be driven out of the market, ive had nothing but bad dealings with them, there quality does not justify the price, the c8000 is going to blow them out of the water.
 
Konica is breaking into a new market so they are probably selling for a smaller margin to get a foot in the door.

Xerox probably charing too much too.
 
Konica Minolta makes its own gear, while Xerox has to buy from Fuji.

For all intents and purposes, in this context, they're one and the same. It is "Fuji Xerox" after all. So while you are technically correct of course, it isn't the same as if they were buying it from an outside vendor. It's an internal transaction.

But even ignoring that, the same machine from Fuji Xerox almost without exception costs more than from Xerox (even taking into account different exchange rates, etc etc) ANYway, so that isn't likely to be where the difference comes from.

I'm certainly not going to get into a "it's because A is so much better than B" argument since those types of discussions almost always devolve into a juvenile p---ing match of snippy remarks, which is the very worst aspect of this forum, but I would suspect that KM is being extremely aggressive with the pricing right off the bat whereas Xerox has a tendency to start high, them come down fairly rapidly.
 
I recently swithed from Xerox to KM. You can see all of my posts regarding the reason for the switch if you look back.

The price difference between the 2 companies is astonishing.

For example, I had been running a Xerox DC7002 (which is a P.O.S. by the way) and it had a price tag of approx. $250K. That was just the machine and the CREO RIP, no finishers. The click charge was about a nickel for a color click.

I am currently running a brand new KM6501, with a high capacity feeder, a high capacity stacker, a saddle stich unit (up to 200 pages w/ face trim), that also half folds and trifolds nested sheets. All run from basically the same CREO RIP that I had on the Xerox. It is a little bit slower, but it's not obvious b/c of the stacker. The sticker price on that entire set-up is approx $70K. the click charge is about the same, at a nickel.

So bottom line is I could put about 3 of these KM set-ups in for aout the same price as a worthless Xerox machine that can't hold consistent color.

I believe the KM8000 base sticker price is around $110K-$120K, wich is way cheaper than the base X800/1000 sticker, which i beleive to be closer to $400K. Even the X DC8000AP is about $350K, and I feel bad for anyone that is stuck running that hunk of junk.
 
As someone else mentioned, why IS XEROX charging TWICE as much. Do your research, spend time with each machine and see if it is justified. I did and went with KM.
 
We just went through an exhaustive review of the Xerox 700, canon 6010 and the Konica c7000.
We already had service through Eastern on our b/w Konica 1050's. Service rate is great. Service has always been good. We also got quotes for Konica Minolta direct and the prices were on par with Eastern. The lease rate through Konica direct we better ($200/month) which is no small change. We just felt more comfort (and a sence of loyalty) with Eastern. I am very impressed with the quality so far. Currently I am running 3,000 12x18 100# gloss cover 4/4. We have the stacker option. very nice.

Dan Flatt MMSNY.com Corning, NY
 
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The Konica Minolta is the BOMB. We have one ad love it. It is a moneymaker. Xerox are crooks an liars.
 
Is not the question, why are xerox charging twice as much for their kit?

Because they can. You're paying for the name, just like you do when you look at a Ricoh vs a KM platform, almost 80% higher for comparable quality.

Mark H
 
Crow taste good

Crow taste good

I have to eat crow here. I have left Xerox for Ikon(Ricoh). No more kool aid drinking for me. I always thought the 2400X2400 was the best! Until I just did some samples with the Ricoh 901 vs. the 700. Wow what an idiot I felt like. I have sold over 7 700's and 10 240/242 boxes in my day. The resolution "looks" better on the 901 by far. The 700 customer printed on his own coated paper with Correl and I had our coated paper with a PDF. There are sections that are crisper and the solids look way better.
Lets just face the facts that Xerox is over priced, period. Ever seen how many people come out from Xerox when you buy an IGEN? It is amazing what I can sell now with Ricoh versus Xerox.
I not disgrunted just honest. :)
 
I think it all comes down to the brand name and differences in opinion. Many people have had bad luck with one brand or another and have entirely switched and practically refuse to look at other brands. This could be due to something on the service side they were unhappy with or the engine itself. Some people are vain enough that only the "Xerox" brand will do. At this point I think anyone that's still in business has to be selling a reasonably good piece of equipment or they wouldn't be in business.

I will agree that Xerox charges too much for their gear. However after looking at the Ricoh 900, KM6501hc, and Canon c9075 we decided the Xerox 700 looked better. Now don't get me wrong the other engines put out great quality. However WE liked the look of the prints from the Xerox better. Were we willing to pay more for it? Yes we were, due to several concerns with service from our local reps on the other machines. The only brand we haven't owned in the last 10 years is the KM so we know the different dealers in the area. The other thing we looked at was how knowledgeable the service/support staff was at each dealer. We demo'd all the machines and the Xerox tech who trained us on the machine (hands-down) actually had knowledge of things like color profiling, workflow, color management, proofing for larger color printers/presses, etc. He knew the equipment including the RIP and was willing to spend several days getting us up and running. The other dealers knew the basics of how to run the "copier" end of the machines but knew next to nothing on the RIP end of the machine other than setting up the IP address and driver on a PC. Over the demo period we actually learned and knew more than the service monkeys in this regard. When we called them out to discuss matching spot colors or color quality we were used to adjusting and seeing on press they were clueless. This may be different depending on the area you live in...you make the choice if spending the extra money is worth it or not. At the end of the day we thought the quality off the majority of the machines we looked at was great compared to the others and if price was the only concern we would probably have gone with one of the other dealers. For us getting the training on the machine from someone who knew what it was capable of rather than stumbling around for a month learning the ropes made the difference. Of course on a higher value piece (Xerox 7002, KM 8000 etc.) the price difference is a lot greater and we might be advised to spend our extra money on a specialist that costs a tenth of the difference.

I hope your local dealers are much better than ours were. If KM and Canon in particular want to sell this level of equipment rather than the low-end office copiers they need to make sure their dealers are capable of supporting it before letting them loose. Xerox may have the same problem with some of it's dealers, but ours was excellent and it felt like we were dealing with someone who knew the ins and outs of production printing versus a copier salesman. I realize though that if you are familiar with the front-end (e.g. Fiery, Creo) and the color/screening/profiling tools available that the knowledge of the dealer may be of a tertiary concern. We were coming from a Canon C1, Xerox 250, 12 equipment package and felt as though we were not up to speed on getting these digital machines to perform at their capabilities.

I will admit I'm excited to see what the KM 8000 is capable of and the pricing structure for clicks, we're looking at opening a 4th location and are going to be evaluating some larger print engines for it, our last round of evaluations was about 2 years ago so I cant wait to see some of the new stuff and it's capabilities.
 

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